Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Last week we talked about billions of dollars going to farmers in the name of fixing agriculture.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Today we're following that same farm bill money to the grocery store and to what it's actually buying.
[00:00:12] Speaker A: We spend an enormous amount of money trying to solve hunger in America, but nobody wants to talk about what that money actually buys.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: And to understand that, we have to talk about snap, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, and talk about it honestly.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: Welcome to the Duster Mud Podcast. I'm Shelley.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: I'm Rich.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: We like to talk about food freedom and farming. And today it's food and freedom because I think that free. Well, we're talking about buying food and, you know, freedom really is attached to that.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Yeah. If you're hungry, you're probably not feeling free.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: Right.
The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, what is it?
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Well, it is the largest nutrition assistance program that we have in this nation. There are others like WIC and school lunch programs and stuff like that, but SNAP is definitely the largest one. It is 100 billion with a B dollars annually in this nation.
94 billion of that is spent on the food.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: The other 6 billion is the federal.
Federal government's portion of the administration.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Got it.
That's a lot of people. And that's a lot of money.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Oh, it didn't talk about how many people yet.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: Oh, I'm sorry. I was listening to your numbers, but I wasn't really paying attention. No kidding. The people.
2 million, roughly. People are on SNAP.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: It depends on which month. It's either just above or just below. 42 million. Okay, sorry. Yeah, 42 million.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: Okay. So that's a lot of people. When the government was shut down in October And November of 2025, some things came to light about the SNAP benefits. Who's receiving SNAP benefits and what's really buying. And it was a little bit eye opening to a lot of people. Before we go any further in this conversation, I would like to say that we are not against snap. This is a deep dive into what it is and where the money comes from and where it's going.
We have family members who receive SNAP benefits. We received WIC when we were early in our marriage with a kid. We are not against government assistance, but we are about fiscal responsibility with what the government is doing with our money and where it's going. So that's what this discussion is going to be about as we dive into some of the, let's just say, circular movement of lots of money.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: Yeah, right. And I think it's something to think about. You mentioned the chaos that was sort of Brewing during the government shutdown. The government spends $100 billion in a lot of places, and there's not a whole lot of chaos associated with it. But this one, you know, 42 million people, that's one in every eight.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a, that's a lot of people.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: It's a lot of people.
And when it affects that many people now you're starting to see things, you know, that's when it really started bubbling and brewing is because it was just so many people that were being affected. Right?
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And with social media right now, the, the, there were some wild things posted out there about people's disappointment with the fact that the government wasn't giving the assistance when people depend on it. Children going hungry, not being fed, people abusing the system.
And the system is the driver of the entire thing. And I believe that we have a systemic problem. Problem.
Where does this hundred billion dollars come from? But so the government has a budget and this is underneath the usda that's, it's a USDA line item.
Where does the money come from within the USDA in order to fund $100 billion annually to a nutrition program. Nutrition program, yeah.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: Hopefully we'll get to that. Hopefully we remember to touch on nutrition.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: It's in the farm bill.
So most people, when they think farm bill, they think subsidies, crop insurance, you know, paying farmers not to grow food. I mean, like, there was a lot of, there's a lot of things, conservation programs.
Recently there was $12 billion to row crop farmers that we talked about last week's podcast, along with $700 million to some regenerative practices. All of that farm bill money pales in comparison to SNAP.
So SNAP makes up somewhere between 70 to 80% of the farm bill.
[00:05:16] Speaker A: I don't think that most people realize that because whenever they talk about even considering passing a new farm bill, we don't. We think, we mostly think of farmers like you just mentioned. But really what we need to be thinking of when they're passing a farm bill is are the kids going to get fed?
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Right. You know, yeah.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Last. What you. Last week, we talked about the billions that are going to farmers, the tens of billions that then through snap, it flows through to the consumers. But it's the same bill, it's the same system and it's the same incentives.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's the snap, really, if you think about it, it's. It's not going to your, your farmers per se.
You know, I mean, it is part of the farm bill and in the sense that There's a large portion of the purchases that are made into ultra processed foods and the row crop farmers provide the majority of the ingredients into those processed foods. I guess indirectly it ends up back to the, to the row crop farmers.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: But not by much because how many cents of the, of the food dollar does the farmer actually receive? 8.8cents of every of those of the hundred billion dollars. 94 of it's going to food.
Well, only 8 cents of all of that even goes to a farmer.
[00:06:53] Speaker B: 8 cents per dollar. Yeah.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Makes its way back to the farmer.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: So not really to the farmers.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: No. And it, it really, I think the, the misnomer or the misunderstanding is that, wow, the farm bill is huge. We're really taking care.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Yeah, that's bs.
That's, it's just not, I mean, it's just right.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: Wow, the farm bill is huge. We're really working hard to feed America.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: That'S different.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Yeah. And, but it's, we're not doing it through the farmers.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: We're doing it through snap.
[00:07:37] Speaker A: So let's break down who's getting the different portions of the hundred billion dollars.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: So like I said, 94 billion goes directly out towards assistance. The other 6 billion is the federal government's portion of the administrative costs of the program.
And then states pitching.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: I was going to say. Wait, let me stop you.
The states.
That's kind of why this is all a big kind of all coming to it to light again is because the states are now getting involved with making some requests to change what the SNAP benefits can purchase.
Right.
Recently, six states have applied for a waiver to be able to restrict what the SNAP program will, will buy.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: Not exactly. Let me, let me correct you to 100% there.
[00:08:45] Speaker A: He's always correcting me, y'.
[00:08:46] Speaker B: All. Last week, six additional states were approved. There are now 18 states.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Oh, you're right.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Whose waivers have been approved. We don't know how many more states have applied.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: Okay, so when you said administrative costs, the federal government.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: It's a 50, 50 split between the federal government and the states for the administration of the SNAP program.
For, for its costs.
The federal government pitches in half the money. The states then pitch in the other half of the money and all of the work, like the labor administering stuff. There's a tiny bit of federal government labor like to distribute the money to the states and stuff, but like the administration of the program at the state level. So taking the applications, making sure the application applicants meet certain qualifications, you know, like all of that stuff, making sure that last Year's applicants are qualified still. And like all of, all of the literal. Administering the program, dealing with the people that are applying, like that's all done at the state level.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't know that.
You know, and not. Not understanding who puts what money into the pot.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's also important to say that it's not, it's not just 6 billion divided by 50 states.
Each state, you know, it costs them a different amount based on how much.
How much of the, the service they're using, you know? Right. If you have a very small state that isn't. Doesn't get much snap and you're not doing a whole lot with snap, you don't put a whole lot in.
[00:10:27] Speaker A: Got it. Okay, back to the percentages. Who of what the SNAP is, is purchasing.
40% of SNAP food dollars go to things like meat, dairy, eggs, fruits and vegetables, and staple foods. So 40% of the 94 billion goes to what I like to refer to as real food.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:52] Speaker A: Food. That is what it always was.
It's sitting.
You get it from the grocery store, you put it in the pot or the oven, and you heat it up and it still is the same thing.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: That food is only 40% of the whole total.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Yeah. 40% also goes towards prepackaged food. So think like, you know, cereal and macaroni and cheese and, you know, like things like that that are, you know, you might have to cook it or prepare it in some way, but it's definitely processed. Hamburger Helper, right? Yeah, that kind of thing. So it's not like just hamburger. It's not a, A broccoli or a cauliflower or a carrot, you know.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Yeah. It's something that's in a package.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: It's something packaged. So another 40% goes to that. So that's 80% now.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: And I would argue that prepackaged foods are probably loaded with carbohydrates.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, right.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: They're probably, they're probably processed to some degree.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: Very, maybe even ultraso.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: Okay. The. And then 20%.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: The 20% goes to what you would typically refer to as junk food.
It is candies, sodas, desserts, prepackaged sweets like that, that type of thing. Is the other 20 snacks, tater chips.
Junk.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: Like junk food.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: We grew up calling it junk food.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it still is.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
So it's almost.
Almost $20 billion.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: Okay, here's the even more criminal part of the whole thing. In my opinion, 10 billion estimated $10 billion goes solely to sugary sodas.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: Yeah. You'll often hear them referred to as ssd, Sugar sweetened drinks. So it's, it includes your energy drinks and those types of things. So it's not just carbonated beverage.
We grew up calling Coke. Nowadays they refer to as soda.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: Apparently soda makes up one of the single largest categories.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:07] Speaker A: So with your taxpayer dollars, Coca Cola, Pepsi Co, and various other drink makers and Big Sugar are benefiting billions. Yeah.
What do you think about that?
I'm just asking for a friend. What do you think?
So who benefits?
We just talked about Coca Cola, but who benefits from this program the most?
[00:13:45] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think you mentioned it, but I do want to just put an exclamation point on it. The, if you, if you break it down into individual categories, like beef or like, if you do that, soda is the largest category.
Okay.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Exclamation taken.
The people on SNAP do benefit from having extra food dollars. They do.
But this system, who does the system benefit?
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Well, I think.
And you bring up a. By saying food dollars.
That's an, it's an interesting nuance that I believe Congress should debate. They haven't. They've avoided the debate.
I think they should debate it. And we should probably demand that they Deb.
Because there, the question is, is this a, A, an actual nutrition program or is it merely an income supplement?
So a nutrition program has at its heart a, a desire, a care for nutrients.
You know, I'm trying to provide nutrition.
If you're allowing things like what we would consider junk food or sodas, things that, especially with the scientific research going on in the, in the very recent past and ongoing currently, there is very little evidence that you could call soda a nutritious drink.
So if it is a nutrition program, it would seem that it would automatically exclude things that aren't nutritious. So right now, excluded, you can't buy alcohol, you cannot buy tobacco, things that you might find at a grocery store, but don't provide nutrition.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: So there is not a real, an agreement on whether this program is about actual nutrition or whether it is simply supplementing an income.
So when you talk about food dollars, you really like. And during the announcement last week, USDA Secretary Brooke Rollins said one of the things that she was really looking forward to in January, the new food guidelines coming out is defining ultra processed foods. And we sort of chuckled at that and laughed. And it's like, oh my God, can you imagine being a secretary of a, of a federal department agency and the.
[00:16:46] Speaker A: Thing kind of over food.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: Yeah. The thing that you're excited about is a definition of ultra processed foods.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:54] Speaker B: And then as we got to thinking about it and talking about it, once you define something like ultra processed foods, like make actually define it, then you could say something like ultra processed foods will not be included in a nutrition assistance program.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: WIC is restrictive when, yeah, when I was on WIC when we had our first child and it's still the same way. It's restrictive. You can get milk and peanut butter, eggs, cheese, things that are, are food that provide n protein to the mom and the child.
Is it a perfect system? No. Is it. Do I consider all the foods a perfect foods? Not necessarily, but it does provide actual food and it tells the mom and it helps the mom say here, go get this and make sure your kid eats some nutritious food that is going to help them be a healthy body. Because we want healthy bodies. Well, that leads us to the other, the other point that the, the states are, that the states are making about, about health of the population as well.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So with that, the, the news recently has been all about these, the waivers that states are requesting.
And as the law is written, you're, you're not allowed to exclude food from the, that the assistance.
Now there are some loopholes because you can't have like hot ready to eat food isn't included.
And there was, there are reasons and the reasons that they give are administrative burden. Like it's, it would be too hard to say you can buy ground beef but you can't buy a Snickers bar. Like they, they think that administratively that would be too difficult. And then also they think that there would be like a stigma associated with, you know, I'm making two purchases or something. Like I can, I'll buy my ground beef and then I'll buy my Snickers bars. And so like there was, well, freedom of choice.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: Like I just want to be able to choose what I want, what I want to eat.
And I understand that too.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: So from the federal perspective, they have historically and some of us may remember back in the 2010-2016 timeframe, there was something going on about food stamps and Coke and like.
But I'm like, what was actually happening? So I did a little research on that and what was happening is there were some states, mainly in the Northeast, that were requesting waivers to exclude junk food and sodas and sugary sweetened drinks from SNAP benefits. And the government said, no, we deny your waiver. So the USDA has not approved waivers in any administration up until right now. So what's happening now is states again are Asking for waivers to exclude things like junk food and sugar sweetened snacks. And they are being granted the waivers now for the first time. And the waivers are given as a, like a pilot program to say, you know, the way that they're written. It is we, the state think that we, we can administer this program while excluding these things. We would like to try it. Basically.
[00:20:48] Speaker A: I totally commend them on trying it because when you look at the rising health crisis, we have a food and health crisis in this country. We do not have a calorie deficit, we have a nutrition deficit. And with the rising health crisis that we have, we have some of the highest type, the highest type 2 diabetes rate we've ever seen. Obesity rates are at numbers we've never seen in this country before.
Kids aren't even qualifying for the military because they're overweight. They've got mental health problems, among other reasons. 70 something percent of kids are not even eligible to go into the military.
So with the rising metabolic crisis that we have, we have rising health care costs and Medicaid, which is also partly run by the states, it's breaking us, it's breaking us in the healthcare department.
And the states are literally saying help, we need to stop this train. And the train is people who are eating ultra processed foods are becoming very unhealthy and it's causing our health care costs to be unsustainable. And they're just looking for a way to, to maybe slow the train down. Yeah, And I, and I agree with them, I really do because the numbers are very, they correlate.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:28] Speaker A: I'm not going to say they're a cause, but there is a correlation between SNAP food dollars and health care cost rise. A rise in health care costs.
[00:22:40] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a recognition in that population. Yeah, there's, there's a recognition now that food policy and health policy are overlapping.
They've, they've been fairly separate.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: Well, they need to overlap because food drives health.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah. And the Make America Healthy Again movement, I think is bringing it really to the front of everybody's mind.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: And I don't really think that the states are trying to be punitive. Punitive to them. They're not trying to be mean, they're not trying to, to SNAP recipients.
They're really not, they're trying to like curb the problem. Yeah, that is really at hand.
And I, you know, I don't know if it's going to work.
I don't know.
I don't know. But it's, it's certainly worth a Try. And I understand the outcry from both sides, but the fact is fiscally, these two things, the food and the health care are breaking us.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: I think it is important to recognize, you mentioned that we're not against nutrition assistance.
The SNAP program does provide nutrition.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: Yes. It's all, it does, like keep people from being hungry.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: It does do that. I think that it's important to recognize that though.
[00:24:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:16] Speaker B: Like we're not saying that it doesn't.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Does do that.
It also reinforces the drive, the desire for ultra processed foods.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: They are very cheap and they're very addictive.
They are. I used to, I used to be on them.
I mean. Well, true. You know, and they, and they really, really are.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:50] Speaker A: But there, there's a loop to this whole thing.
At the beginning I said the money loop and there is and it just keeps cycling around.
The commodity crops are subsidized, so corn, soy, wheat, rice.
[00:25:11] Speaker B: We don't call them subsidies anymore, we call them crop insurance.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: But you're right, ultra processed food is created from those products and it is very inexpensive.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:23] Speaker A: SNAP dollars flow toward those foods.
The numbers are there.
Okay.
[00:25:31] Speaker B: Yeah. If you just include ultra processed, you're probably looking at 60%.
[00:25:36] Speaker A: 60%.
We have. Chronic diseases are on the rise, health care costs have exploded and government spends more to treat the symptoms.
We're not curing anything, we're just treating the symptoms.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: So there is a huge multi trillion dollar with a T problem.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: I'm not saying SNAP is the, is the, is the crux of the problem by any means.
The system, the entire food system in my opinion is the problem.
To the whole, to the whole thing. I mean, let's talk about small farms.
Okay. We're a small farm.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: Yeah. The reality is we can't compete in this space. We like, we really can't. We just don't have the scale in order to, to produce the amount at the profit margin. Like the whole thing is, is rigged against a small scale producer.
[00:26:49] Speaker A: A small scale beef and chicken producer trying to get shelf space in major grocery stores. No, no, like, no, it's not going to happen. Freezer space.
[00:27:00] Speaker B: And even if you could, I mean we've, we've just read about Walmart basically completely vertically integrating their beef production. Walmart's, I mean, their, their whole business model, they run on a 2.8% profit margin.
Right. 2.8% profit margin for a small business means you, you're failing.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:24] Speaker B: So like, even, even if we could produce beef at the same, you know, at the same price point, as Walmart does, we can't produce enough so that 2.8% would even come close to keeping us in business.
[00:27:40] Speaker A: Right, but we're all about trying to find, identify the problem and try to try to find some kind of solution.
So what would really help this gargantuan problem?
[00:27:56] Speaker B: Yeah, well, for me, like an actual answer, I would say first off, that 20% that the states are now asking to waive.
You know, basically that's what they're saying is we want to take that 20% for the junk food and, and sodas, give that 20%, use it to open this market to your small producers.
[00:28:32] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:28:33] Speaker B: So turn it into programs like the farmer to school lunch programs or you know, senior centers, those types of things. Use it to just the equipment to accept EBT or the card that the SNAP benefits are on. It's hundreds of dollars of equipment.
You, you know, subsidize the purchase of the equipment for small producers.
Right. Make the forms easier to fill out, you know, spend some money to streamline the forms. We tried filling it out and couldn't. It just got denied and, and rejected and said start over. Right. So like, you know, there are, there are things that I think that you could do or that the government could do and if, if we wave this $20 billion, like don't, don't make it go away.
Use it, Redirect it. Redirect it.
Still in the nutrition side, a lot.
[00:29:44] Speaker A: Of farmers markets take they, they take EBT or snap. They do, but it's very expensive. We have a small market here in our local town. They were talking about doing it and it was going to be hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a market, a farmer's market where people sell food to be able to, to accept it.
Let's make that, that shouldn't cost a thing. Not one thing. For a system that's trying to grow real food to be able to accept a system that's providing nutrition assistance.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: There should be zero financial barrier on the producer's part to be able to get that food into people's hands who our country says need it. Like, give me a break.
Seriously. That's got to be one of the easiest fixes there is.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: What about incentives? Instead of restricting people from what they eat or what they can buy, a lot of times incentives work better.
I know whenever there's like a tax incentive or tax credit incentive, people will buy one car over another or it may be the washing machine is a little, you know, energy star or something. And if you put the More energy conserving appliance in your house, then you can get some sort of tax break or something. What about an incentive about what we buy?
[00:31:16] Speaker B: There are some incentives in place and you could certainly make that program more robust. So an incentive would be like a coupon. 50 cents off real food when you use your snap dollars or for every dollar spent on real food, there's an extra dollar given at your purchase.
[00:31:39] Speaker A: Rebecca was telling me about our little grocery store here, town and country. They offer if you buy fruits and vegetables. For now, I don't know. She. I think that program may be ending, but they would, it was like double dollars if you were buying produce, real food.
So I know that happens, but I, I don't know if it, how the program works.
[00:32:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:05] Speaker A: What it costs to be able to do that. How do you get that money paid back to you on those programs? And apparently they don't last forever.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: And that would be a great. That's good.
[00:32:18] Speaker B: There is some research that says incentives work better than punishments. You know, restrictions. Restrictions. But it's going to be seen as a punishment. Why are you punishing me? You know, everybody else can drink Coke.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: Oh, look, no, no, everyone can drink Coke.
Everyone in the United States of America has the right to buy whatever food products they want to buy.
You have every right to go spend your dollar on whatever you want to. But here's the thing.
Whenever you have in your hand a card that has money on it that has been bestowed on you by the taxpayers of the United States, that is no longer your money.
That money belongs to the collective. Really. And we've said, here, go get yourself some good food. But whenever you take it and you buy things that aren't good food because they're cheaper, when you buy those things, you're making yourself sicker. And then that costs more taxpayer dollars. And so we. No one cares what you go by. We wish you wouldn't, but, well, it's your right to buy with your money what you want. But when you're talking about someone else's money, there's purse strings just like, hey, we got kids. And if I gave you the money, I kind of get to tell you what to do with it. Or at least I have a say. I might not tell you exactly what to do with it, but I got a little say, I might add a little, few, little restrictions on what you can do with it.
Even when you got college kids, you know, I'm paying for your college. I'm paying for your room and board.
[00:34:01] Speaker B: I might have a Say in your grades.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: I might have a say in your grades.
[00:34:04] Speaker B: Yeah. What?
[00:34:06] Speaker A: That, that's just, that's pretty common.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: If you have an investor in a business, they're on the board of directors. They have a say as to what is being done with the money. They want the quarterly reports. How did you spend the money that I gave you and invested into your company? Right. I want to know back. I want to report back. And so I think the American taxpayers have the right to say what?
No, no. We want you to be well, we want you to eat good food. We want you to have nutritious food. We want the kids to be able to eat protein and grow and be big and for their brains to just be happy and go to school and then go be something amazing in the world.
Like, that's what we want.
[00:34:53] Speaker B: Nutrition. A nutrition program, not an income supplement.
[00:34:59] Speaker A: Yes, you're right.
That, that, that really does, that really does nail it.
[00:35:06] Speaker B: So probably the, the question to end with is, are we, are we using SNAP dollars, $100 billion a year, plus another 6 or so billion that the states put into it. Are we using that actually for nutrition, or are we subsidizing a food system that we don't think is a good system anyway? Right.
[00:35:33] Speaker A: It's a great question. Let us know what you think in the comments. For sure. We love every comment and we comment back. So, yeah, we like the dialogue. These are good conversations to have. We need them. As hard as they are and as uncomfortable as it feels, we still need to have conversations.
Thank you for hanging out with us on the Duster Mud podcast today. And until next time, bye.
[00:35:58] Speaker B: Bye.
