What Would You Choose? | Locked-Up Over Food Freedom!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: There's a big push right now, like with Joel Salatin and the Rogue Food conference, and it's, there's a lot of. [00:00:06] Speaker B: Push about circumvent rather than compliance. [00:00:09] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what Joel says. Circumvent rather than comply. [00:00:12] Speaker B: And I agree. [00:00:13] Speaker A: I love it. [00:00:14] Speaker B: I love it. I love it. [00:00:16] Speaker A: The caution is you may find yourself in jail. Are you willing to go to jail over food freedom? Well, Wyatt was. Today we're going to talk about Wyatt and what happened in Newmele, a little town just outside of St. Louis, Missouri. [00:00:31] Speaker B: Welcome to the Duster Mudd podcast. After 25 years of being in the Air Force, we gave up that life and moved to the state of Missouri and started a small, first generation regenerative farm. During Rich's time in the Air force, we traveled the world in defense of the Constitution of the United States. [00:00:53] Speaker A: I took an oath, actually to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. And part of that constitution is the First Amendment. And in the First Amendment, one of the rights that it guarantees is freedom of assembly. And that freedom, the freedom of assembly forms the foundation of this thing called a private membership association. You'll often hear it called a PMA. And that that first Amendment right to associate, that freedom of association is the foundation of a PMA. [00:01:30] Speaker B: There are a lot of PMAs around this country that I'm sure most of you are very familiar with. PMA is like the NAACP, the American. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Bar association, the American Medical Association, Boy. [00:01:44] Speaker B: Scouts of America, and the Girl Scouts, I believe. [00:01:47] Speaker A: Probably. So. [00:01:50] Speaker B: The. Many of the VFW. [00:01:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:01:55] Speaker B: The. Some of the American Legion, the American Legion, some of the other fraternal organizations that we are all fairly familiar with, the Lions Club, Rotary Club, things like Kiwanis, service minded organizations that are national and international. They're all private membership associations. Another kind is a country club. Sure. Which. They're a PMA for a reason. [00:02:23] Speaker A: Yeah. That's how they can be so very exclusive. Right. They make their membership fees really high. A lot of them. You have to be invited in. [00:02:32] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:33] Speaker A: And that is because it's a private association. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Right. And another one, speakeasies. [00:02:43] Speaker A: Oh, yes. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Bars that are open or clubs that are open after hours or just to private people. [00:02:52] Speaker A: Even in dry counties. [00:02:54] Speaker B: In dry counties, there are places that serve alcohol to their members only because they are a private membership association. Now, in this country, it seems that if you're dealing with a club, a sports club, and a social organization, alcohol even, nobody gets real wound up about all of it. We just kind of go, okay, so they're a country club and they pick their members and there's nothing really at jeopardy. [00:03:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Sometimes with the, with the after hours bars and stuff, they'll describe that as they're operating in a legal gray zone. So you can. Can sometimes find instances where they take issue with some of the after hours or drinking establishments. [00:03:51] Speaker B: Okay. So not normally. Yeah. A PMA. The idea is that two adult citizens have decided to make a transaction or get together and do a thing outside of public purview. [00:04:12] Speaker A: Yep. [00:04:13] Speaker B: It is not a public anything. There is no advertising, really, for their products or they're not open to business per se. If you want to participate, you can, but you have to become a member of the organization in order to be able to do that. [00:04:35] Speaker A: Some of them require you to be invited. Like there are. There are different requirements for different ones. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Yeah. So, so there is a. The delineation is commerce. [00:04:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:47] Speaker B: What, what is the product? And is it. Is there something that's entering commerce? And what we're talking about today is the. Is the delineation between those two things. So let's get into. On March 19, Wyatt Gober was taken into custody in a courtroom in contempt of court for not complying and allowing health inspectors into a private membership association co op that was selling and trading food to its members. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's probably one of the newest private membership associations and one that we're probably all the most familiar with as the Homestead community, Farmstead Community is the private membership associations that are formed around food freedom and our rights to transact such that we are being able to get what we feel is the most healthy for us. And so sometimes they're formed as food churches, sometimes they're formed as cooperatives. Sometimes they're just private membership associations. The most famous right now at least, is the Amos Miller case in Pennsylvania. A private membership association under a food co op is what AMos was. And we all are familiar with the legal battles that have been going on for almost ten years now. In Amos case, if you're not, google it. [00:06:24] Speaker B: It's pretty easy to gather some information really quick on what's going on there. [00:06:29] Speaker A: Right? So the idea behind this is much like the other private membership associations. The a person, a group of people, will establish an association for private members only. And inside that association, they will transact outside of public commerce. They will trade in whatever is an agreeable form of trade. Like maybe trading raw milk for fresh farm eggs or raw milk for silver coins or eggs for dollar bills. Like they are two consenting adults agreeing on a trade outside of public commerce. So that's sort of what's happening inside these private membership associations focused on food freedom. [00:07:26] Speaker B: When you're outside of the public commerce and public trade, the thing that it allows is freedom to do things that are outside of what the regulatory agencies say is legal for sale in the normal commerce. So you've used a couple of examples, meaning raw milk, because in most states, it's illegal to sell retail. Raw milk. [00:07:51] Speaker A: Correct. [00:07:52] Speaker B: And custom processed meats, things like that, that are highly regulated. Breads or anything for that matter, that is created, cooked, whatever, processed in an uninspected environment. [00:08:13] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:14] Speaker B: So in order to sell bread or homemade, any kind of baked goods or canned or processed things, pick. Whether it be pickled or jellied or jammed, if you are not underneath the cottage food lawsuit, then it has to be manufactured, created, cooked in, and inspected by your health and safety regulation, food safety and senior citizens regulation. Whatever those organizations are, they have to be inspected in order to be able to sell it. [00:08:50] Speaker A: That's right. Retail. And that's where a lot of folks get confused, is that at least in Missouri, we'll talk Missouri. I'm the most familiar here. The cottage laws in Missouri allow for those types of things, many of them, not all of them, but many of them, to be sold at farmers markets. Because it's considered cottage law at the farmers market, as soon as you put it in a store, it's now considered retail. And in retail, it now has to be an inspected facility. [00:09:21] Speaker B: The Newmelli co op, founded by Wyatt Gober, is a PMA where their members can go and buy the products that they desire in a private manner. [00:09:37] Speaker A: That's right. Wyatt established it with the idea of providing amazing, healthy, healthful food to his local community and to him. By forming the private membership association, he was able to include things like raw milk, home baked sourdough breads, tinctures for people that believe in herbal remedies. Like, those are the types of things that he was very excited about sharing with his community and thus the reason that they established the new Meli Food co op as a private membership association. [00:10:22] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:24] Speaker A: But I'll pause here to say we talked with Wyatt about, I don't know, two weeks after he was put into jail, and he gave us permission to talk through his story. We got some of the backstory. And if you'll stick around to the end, we'll really discuss what that means for us and where we're going as we're moving forward. It was great for Wyatt to take the time to chat with us and really mentor us as we are on a potential similar path or journey as what Wyatt was on. [00:11:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. It was a very good conversation. Very enlightening. [00:11:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So as Wyatt opened the store, he started getting members, and it wasn't long after that, like a matter of months. [00:11:19] Speaker B: Knock at the door to knock at. [00:11:20] Speaker A: The door of the local county health inspectors. Health inspector showed up and said, I'm here to inspect. [00:11:33] Speaker B: Yes. And he said, inspect what? I don't understand why you're here. We are a private organization now. He didn't want any conflict. He had no interest. This guy is super nice. [00:11:48] Speaker A: Very nice. [00:11:48] Speaker B: He did not want any conflict. He what? He did question why they were there and stated, we are a private member association. We are not open to the public, and therefore we're kind of exempt from all this inspection stuff. You don't have any reason to be here. [00:12:05] Speaker A: So throughout the story, Wyatt never refused inspection. [00:12:11] Speaker B: No. [00:12:12] Speaker A: He always said, why. Show me where it's written that you're allowed to come into a private association. Like, you're not a member. [00:12:24] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Why are you allowed to come into. [00:12:27] Speaker B: Why are you here? [00:12:28] Speaker A: Private. [00:12:29] Speaker B: Right place to inspect. [00:12:32] Speaker A: To inspect. So. Or even just to come in. Right. They're not members. [00:12:36] Speaker B: Right. Why are you here? [00:12:38] Speaker A: Only members come in. [00:12:38] Speaker B: Why are you here? [00:12:39] Speaker A: So that was the local health inspector. The next time the knock on the door happened was the local health inspector with the Missouri department of Health and senior services. [00:12:55] Speaker B: So now the government's there. [00:12:59] Speaker A: Same thing. Knock, knock, knock. Why it says, you know, why are you here? Please show me, you know, what gives you the authority to come in here and inspect? [00:13:12] Speaker B: What was their answer on that one? [00:13:14] Speaker A: They just said, basically, we're the government and we're here to inspect, to which Wyatt said, show me. Show it to me. Show me the authority. Like, where is it written we are. [00:13:23] Speaker B: A private member association? [00:13:25] Speaker A: Where is it written that you are allowed to come into a private association to inspect? [00:13:31] Speaker B: So never refusal. Still continuing to question. That's right. And based on what authority? Based on. Based on what written authority do you have to be here? [00:13:43] Speaker A: Right. Like, do you have a warrant from a judge? [00:13:45] Speaker B: Right. There was no warrant. [00:13:47] Speaker A: Do you have, like, do you have legal proceedings? Is there, you know, where's the legal documentation that says you are allowed to enter this establishment? [00:13:59] Speaker B: So that he did not refuse, but they did leave. And then what happened? [00:14:03] Speaker A: That, that happened a few times, actually. They kept, they continued to come back until in February of this year is when it all really started. And I think the first knocks on the door came in October of 23. So several months. Several months. And then in February, Wyatt received a summons to court. [00:14:30] Speaker B: So it went from request, we're here to, you need to show up in court now. [00:14:38] Speaker A: That's right. Now. [00:14:38] Speaker B: You need to show up now that court. Here's the legal proceedings. [00:14:41] Speaker A: Right. And now Wyatt, he had help establishing the private membership association. So he wasn't just out there on his own doing it like he had. I don't. It wasn't like an attorney, really, but like, he had legal help and assistance in setting up mentorship. Mentorship and setting this whole thing up. So it wasn't just him. He definitely had the support of his community. Community. Like, the members of the co op were behind him. And everybody was feeling the stand strong. Right. Like, we are all behind this idea. And it escalated fairly quickly. So in February, he received the summons to court. By March 5, he was in court. He was tried by civil court. [00:15:34] Speaker B: So he showed up as you do. [00:15:37] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:37] Speaker B: As a citizen summoned to court. He showed up to face whatever the question was. [00:15:46] Speaker A: Yep. And all of these legal documents are online. I'll leave a link to them in the description of this video. And on March 5, he was tried by a civil court. And the judge basically says, it is ordered that Wyatt Gober and his agents, blah, blah, blah, allow the Missouri Department of Health and Senior services to inspect the new melee food co op. And they are hereby do not interfere with their inspection. And they are hereby prohibited from doing business until it has been inspected. So ordered by the judge, Deborah Jean Alesi, the St. Charles Circuit Division judge. So on March 5 of this year, he was ordered to allow them to inspect the entire time during the court cases. And Wyatt even talked with us about this. He basically just said, judge, I do not understand upon what legal authority this. [00:16:57] Speaker B: Is a private member association. [00:16:58] Speaker A: Does this inspection happen? I do not understand. There was never an answer provided to him for that about why this happens. So on March 5, it was, you must allow them to inspect and then leave. And so they showed back up to inspect, and Wyatt said, I don't. I really don't understand what, you know, same question. Why are you here? Upon what authority are you here to inspect? And so they turned around and left. And at this point, I will highlight, we did a podcast on January 22, and it was about Chevron doctrine. You'll hear it either Chevron deference or Chevron doctrine, or even Chevron deference doctrine. And that is the legal background behind the government agencies and the authorities that they have. If this is seeming like extreme overreach from agencies, check out that video on January 22 that we released, and it'll give you a great background as to where these agencies get this type of power over our lives. So on March 19, Wyatt finds himself summoned back to court, and he, like, he's feeling the same feelings. He's thinking the same thoughts. Okay, I still don't understand. And when questioned by the judge, why did you not let the inspectors come in and inspect? I told you to let them in. Wyatt said to the judge, I do not understand. Like, what is the authority? What is the reason why? And at this point, the judge's gavel fell, and Wyatt was taken into custody. [00:19:04] Speaker B: Held in contempt of court for not allowing the inspectors to inspect his private membership association facilities. [00:19:13] Speaker A: Yeah. The judge said, it is hereby ordered that he be held in contempt for his failure to comply with this court's order for preliminary and permanent injunction entered on the March 5 requiring the inspection. It is further ordered that the St. Charles County Sheriff shall take custody of defendant until the defendant agrees to allow the inspection by the Missouri Department of health and senior services of the new Melly food co op. Bond shall be set at $100,000. 10% shall not apply. So ordered. Deborah Jean Alesi, St. Charles Circuit Division. [00:19:59] Speaker B: She meant business. She meant, by, God, you're gonna do what I'm telling you to do, or you're gonna sit there. That's what she meant. [00:20:05] Speaker A: She took him into custody. Remember, this is a civil trial. [00:20:09] Speaker B: Civil trial. There have been no charges. [00:20:13] Speaker A: Nope. No charges. [00:20:14] Speaker B: One charge. [00:20:14] Speaker A: Nope. [00:20:15] Speaker B: Nothing. [00:20:16] Speaker A: No jury of his peers. No charges, no nothing. [00:20:20] Speaker B: You will comply with what we're telling you to do, or we're gonna put you in jail. Oh, I'm going to put you in jail anyways. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:29] Speaker B: Until you comply. [00:20:31] Speaker A: That's right. You will be in jail until you comply with what I've told you to do. Wyatt was dumbfounded and went to jail. He simply asked a question. He not once refused the inspection. [00:20:51] Speaker B: I think her comment to him, if I remember what he said to us on the phone, was, I don't know why you're doing this. [00:20:57] Speaker A: It's exactly what she said. [00:20:58] Speaker B: I don't know why you're doing this. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Why are you doing this? I don't know why you're doing this. [00:21:05] Speaker B: Because I would like the freedom that my constitution guarantees me. That's why I'm doing. I would be doing this because the constitution says that I can have this organization, and now you are putting me in jail for. Just. For exercising my constitutional right. [00:21:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:33] Speaker B: Now, what were the nuts and bolts? There's some nuts and bolts going on in here on the. Whys that? How do you get yourself into a situation where it seems like you are just exercising your right, but where we're. Somewhere the water got. The water got muddy. [00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:58] Speaker B: Somewhere, though, you know, you get the tide line where it's like over here the tide's real pretty and the water's great. And over here the water's kind of lake water. And then when it comes together, it's just kind of ooky. [00:22:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:09] Speaker B: And somewhere in there we've got some tide mixing up because it's, it got muddy. [00:22:14] Speaker A: The epoch Times actually picked this story up and ran an article on it on April 30, about two weeks after we talked. [00:22:22] Speaker B: The epoch Times is a good, we subscribe to them. I really enjoy their reporting. [00:22:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:32] Speaker B: So it's surprised to see it, actually. [00:22:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a pretty good article. Like, in the way that this guy describes it. It sounds like he actually did interview Wyatt and he actually did write what Wyatt told him, which doesn't always happen with journalists. But it sounds, I mean, it's a good article. And he even says in here. After Mister Gober asked the judge what gave the state the authority to enter the private co op, he was arrested for contempt and put in jail. In her ruling, the judge, Judge Alesi, cited a Missouri regulation that the state had free access to all reasonable at all reasonable hours to any factory, warehouse, or establishment in which food, drugs, devices, or cosmetics are manufactured, processed, packed, or held for introduction into commerce. [00:23:29] Speaker B: So that's a very important bit. [00:23:32] Speaker A: Here's where we go. Start splitting hairs. So the end of that sentence introduced into commerce. Commerce is public trading. That is, you walk into the store, a public store, you give them cash for a good. That is commerce. The private membership associations, where they operate is outside of commerce. [00:23:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:00] Speaker A: It is not considered commerce because that is a public transaction. So in the judge's ruling there, what she is saying is, I have determined, I, the judge, I have determined that the Newmelli Food co op, Wyatt's establishment, is a public establishment. [00:24:23] Speaker B: No matter the contracts, no matter the established clauses that they have created in creating their association and their business didn't matter. Oh, wait. It's not a business. It's private member association. [00:24:37] Speaker A: An association of private members. [00:24:40] Speaker B: There were reasons that he stated to us. There were reasons. [00:24:45] Speaker A: Wyatt, when he was talking with us, he said that it seemed at least that where the judge was able to make this determination that it was actually public commerce and not private association was in the fact that he had an open sign. He had hours posted on his business, his establishment, and his door was not locked. It was unlocked so anyone from the public could walk in to his establishment. And because of those things, no matter the contracts and everything else that was signed, no matter. [00:25:31] Speaker B: It was all about perception. It was all about the public perception that this was a business that was open. [00:25:38] Speaker A: Yep. [00:25:39] Speaker B: To sell food. [00:25:42] Speaker A: That's right. [00:25:43] Speaker B: And inside, there was food that was not legally for sale to the public. To the public. To the public. [00:25:53] Speaker A: So as soon as the judge made that determination that this is a public establishment, Wyatt no longer had any legal footing to stand on about his private association. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Did the judge make that determination, or was the judge given that determination by the agencies? [00:26:10] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:26:10] Speaker B: I bet the judge never visited the new Mellie Food co op. [00:26:14] Speaker A: Probably not. [00:26:15] Speaker B: And the agencies presented their case in such a way. And we know via Chevron doctrine, that the judge defers to agencies for. You're the experts. [00:26:29] Speaker A: That's right. And many times we discussed it in the January podcast. Many times, the judges don't even really understand the limitations of the government agencies and regulators. They, like the judge, just defaults to them because they're government, and that happens a lot. And in this case, we don't know. Like the judge, the epoch times, we didn't try to reach out to her. The epoch times did, and she didn't reply to them. So we don't know exactly what was going on. I find it hard to believe that she would admit to it, even if that is what happened. But the point being, as soon as she made that determination that it was public, now, Wyatt, it basically leg swept him. Right. Like, he's now flat on his face, because his entire establishment is built upon the foundation of it being a private association. And as soon as the judge made the determination that this is actually a public business and not a private association, then all of the things that Wyatt had in his head as protection, as protections, they're not there were gone. And that became blatantly obvious to him as he sat in jail. [00:27:49] Speaker B: Yes, he sat in jail for 48 hours, and, well, he sat there until he was willing to comply. [00:27:58] Speaker A: So that's what it boiled down to, right? The judge left him no other option. You either sit in jail, you will sit in jail until you allow the inspection. Now, Wyatt is a husband. He's a father. His business provides for his family. Like he. That it's his life that we're talking about. Right. And this was an open ended. This wasn't a sentence of 30 days or a sentence like, it was just until. You will let them inspect or you will sit in jail. [00:28:34] Speaker B: The amount of governmental, like, overreach in this and the fact that it makes my blood boil that they can just. There has not been. You showed up in court. You were requested. You showed up. There are no charges against you. Right. There's no criminality here. [00:28:56] Speaker A: No. There was contempt. [00:28:59] Speaker B: And so because he was unwilling to comply, he's held in contempt. You're not minding what I'm saying, and so you're going to go to jail. So he went to jail for 48 hours. Eventually. You've got to sit there for 48 hours, had to sit there and make some hard, hard decisions. [00:29:18] Speaker A: And so let's go back to why he established this whole thing in the first place. Because he's trying to provide good food, healthful food to his community that they. [00:29:29] Speaker B: Believe is good for them and makes them well. [00:29:32] Speaker A: Right. And because of doing that, he finds himself in jail. [00:29:37] Speaker B: Jail. [00:29:39] Speaker A: Now, like, in talking with Wyatt, he had, like, there's hard self reflections. There's hard discussions that you're going to have with yourself over. Is it worth it? Yeah, like, what am I doing? I don't have my family. [00:29:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:58] Speaker A: Like, I can't feed my family. I can't provide for my family. All I wanted to do was provide healthy food to my community, and now I'm sitting in jail. So, like, you have some. Some deep introspection that goes on in a situation like that. And after 48 hours, he said, you know what? Okay, fine. We'll let them inspect in order to. [00:30:26] Speaker B: Stay open, in order to be able to have the co op and continue to remain open, even though there are going to have to be some. Some gives and some concessions that are going to have to be made and some things that are not allowed in this particular setup, you're gonna have to. You're gonna have to kick it out and not have it in order for the greater good. So that's. That's what he. That's what they came. That's what he came to. [00:31:01] Speaker A: As soon as he said, yes, you can inspect. The judge ordered that he had purged himself of contempt and he was allowed to be let out of jail. He was let out of jail and subsequently allowed the inspection. The new Melly food co op passed inspection with the exception of. They had to get rid of the raw milk products. Raw milk and raw milk products. And the baked goods that were coming from uninspected kitchens. He ultimately made the decision to return to his family and return to his community and do the best that he could under the system in which he was living. [00:31:48] Speaker B: So we were on the phone with Wyatt. One of the things that we brought up was, hey, we're considering doing this. We own a business. We have a farm. We have beef, lamb, pork, chicken that we process on farm legally under a poultry exemption. We got some eggs and we have raw milk. The horrors. And some raw milk. And we were considering, and have been considering building a PMA around a few of the things that we have so that if we wanted to make something more than just raw milk, raw milk sales is legal in the state of Missouri off farm. You cannot put it into a business and you can't do anything else to it. You can sell milk and you can sell cream, but if I shake the cream and it turns into butter, I cannot sell it because that would be adulterated. Now, in order to be able to do that, you could set up a PMA on the side and sell your raw milk products under your PMA. His recommendation was, if you're going to be public, be public. And if you're going to be private, be private. Don't. It's very difficult, he didn't say don't. It's very difficult to run it side by side. [00:33:15] Speaker A: He just said, and I mean, you can't have any, any better knowledge than what he was sharing, you know? [00:33:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:25] Speaker A: He just lived it. What he was saying was, you really do run the risk, because if you're wanting to run a private, then it has to be private. Like he was saying that, like, you. [00:33:40] Speaker B: Don'T even tell anybody. [00:33:41] Speaker A: Were he to do it again, he would, he would do non disclosure agreements so that he would have legal action to take against someone if they even talked about it. Like, you wouldn't have a storefront, you would certainly not have business hours. You wouldn't have an open sign, you wouldn't have glass windows. You would have a locked door. It would be by appointment only. [00:34:03] Speaker B: It would feel just like a speakeasy. [00:34:05] Speaker A: By people that only know about it. Right. You wouldn't advertise it. It wouldn't be a grocery store that only members can come into. It would just be like totally blacked out, totally private. If you want to do a private, then do it like that. So I would say the word of caution to those homesteaders and farmsteaders and insteaders out there, especially when you, there's, there's a big push right now like with Joel Salatin and the Rogue Food conference. And it's. There's a lot of push about, you know, where are the boundaries? Let's. Let's work around things. [00:34:44] Speaker B: Circumvent rather than compliance. [00:34:46] Speaker A: Yeah. That's what Joel says. Circumvent rather than comply. [00:34:49] Speaker B: And I agree. [00:34:51] Speaker A: I love it. [00:34:51] Speaker B: I love it. I love it. [00:34:54] Speaker A: The caution is you may find yourself in jail. You really need to know the boundaries and have a thought about what's it worth to you as you try to circumvent or as you do circumvent rather than comply. Understand, there. There are times when that might land you in jail. [00:35:16] Speaker B: Yeah. If you get into that gray, muddy water area and you aren't on a defined side of business. If you're not, if it's not clearly defined, government agencies know how to operate really, really well in gray. [00:35:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:35] Speaker B: They know how to bring gray against you. [00:35:37] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:35:38] Speaker B: Every day. And you can't. It's very, very difficult to fight. [00:35:41] Speaker A: Well, even the Amos Miller case, right where it's still in the news today, it was in the news in 2016. He was fined $250,000 in 2016. And then through more court and more of this and more that, that went away, but he still had to pay $86,000. [00:36:02] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a lot of money. [00:36:03] Speaker A: That's a lot of money for a small business. [00:36:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Like, and that money just goes away. It didn't go into fencing or into animals or, like. No, it just. You just paid it to the government and, you know, so can you fight it? Maybe. [00:36:21] Speaker B: Yeah. So with the big push that's out there, and we. We are all for it. We. We just caution anyone. If you already have a business, if you're already set up as an LLC, really consider what your. What direction you're wanting to go with it and do. Do a lot more research and really, instead of just jumping on the bandwagon of like, oh, this is going to be great. I'm going to be able to do whatever I want to just hold back just a little bit and do. Do more research and make sure you really get. Split your hairs. [00:36:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you find yourself in front of a judge and that judge determines commerce, that means you're public. You're public no matter what things you've signed with your membership. If the judge says commerce, you're public, and you better watch out. [00:37:13] Speaker B: So air to ground farms, rich and Shelly are public. We have been public for the past two, three years almost. We are public. We're going to remain public. Right now, we've decided the for us, PMA is on the way back. Burner. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Yeah, we're not going to do anything. [00:37:33] Speaker B: We're not going to do anything with that right now. We're just like, way, way back there. And in fact, we're so public that we've made some business decisions recently, and air to ground farms is now going to bifurcate a little bit. And we are going to be opening air to ground meets. [00:37:56] Speaker A: That's right. [00:37:57] Speaker B: In full view in the public. Air to Ground meets, LLC will be operating out of Ava. [00:38:04] Speaker A: We formed air to Ground meets, LLC at the beginning of this month, and we have secured a building. We're just off of the square in Ava. We will be opening a storefront. [00:38:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Exciting. [00:38:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Very exciting. [00:38:18] Speaker B: Really exciting. [00:38:19] Speaker A: We take the building the 1 June, and from there we have to do some, you know, standard stuff, getting stuff set up so we don't have, like a, an open date yet. Lots more to talk about, about the types of things that we'll have in there, the, the types of other products that will be in there, the other people and businesses that are part of what we're doing. Part of what we're doing. [00:38:46] Speaker B: It will be air to ground farms products, but it will also be other local farmers and local homesteaders and just trying to give people a little bit more space to be able to offer their stuff as well. [00:39:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:04] Speaker B: So we're excited about that. Local food market. Yeah. [00:39:08] Speaker A: It'll be called air to ground meats. [00:39:10] Speaker B: Local food market. [00:39:10] Speaker A: It'll be a local market. [00:39:12] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's, that's what, that's the news that we have. And it's really exciting because we were considering the PMA and we've kind of come away from that. We've just gone full sail all the way. We're going. We're just going to stay in the public. We will deal with what we've got to deal with. And as far as governmental health inspections and all of that, it's fine, because if, if we're not willing to play the game inside of the rules that have been set, then we can't compete at the game. [00:39:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:46] Speaker B: And right now, the thing that we're competing against is the large food industry that's out there that is making food that we think is just subpar. And we, if we keep it private, the public doesn't have access to. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Yeah. We don't want to put it behind a closed door. No, not right now. [00:40:07] Speaker B: Not right now. [00:40:08] Speaker A: We want to tell everybody about it. [00:40:10] Speaker B: Right. [00:40:11] Speaker A: We think it's amazing. And we think that everybody should be eating amazing food and we want to offer it to everyone and we want to be able to talk about it and advertise it and put it out to you, to you guys and say we're making amazing food and other people in your area are making amazing food. [00:40:29] Speaker B: Right. [00:40:30] Speaker A: Let's, let's support that. Let's, let's, you know, come together and all of these things. Like we would basically have to just. [00:40:37] Speaker B: Shut up and we're not going to do that. [00:40:40] Speaker A: And we don't want to do that. [00:40:41] Speaker B: We don't want to do that. And so, Wyatt, we are grateful for you for taking the time to talk to us and mentor us and give us more things to think about and analyze and make decisions going forward and so that we didn't wind up down a road that we weren't prepared to be on. [00:41:03] Speaker A: More than anything, we've got at least a tentative appointment with Wyatt. He's going to come visit our farm and he's very interested in buying some raw milk off of the farm. And so we're, we're definitely going to get Wyatt here and be able to chat with him a little bit more. [00:41:24] Speaker B: And, you know, so I want to end this with a little bit of an apology and a learning curve that we are on. So being new to being in the public, being new to having a public voice and just having a platform and displaying what we're doing out there like this, we're new to this. And so we did not make some announcements that I think if we're going to be doing business on a public platform, we should get better. At last weekend, we did not attend either the Ava nor the Forsyth farmers markets because Michaela, who is our twelve year old, was testing for her black belt in Taekwondo. And we took the week off completely to celebrate that with her. She did succeed. We do have a twelve year old black belt. We're super proud of her. And we were, we were honored to be able to have the time and be available to watch her do that. Where I messed up was that I didn't let you know that. And we had a customer drive a distance to come to Ava to get to see us and to get some products from us and we weren't there. And it was let known to us. That was very disappointing and it is very disappointing. It's very disappointing for me that we let that happen. And my sincerest apology to you for that. And if anyone else has come out and came out last week and we didn't let you know that we were not going to be there. We just, we apologize. We're learning this. We're learning that when you put yourself in public, you're in public and how to manage and how to navigate that. So we continue to learn. We continue to learn from you and get better. And so I would like to say this coming Saturday, we will have people at the Forsyth Farmers Market and we will have people at the Ava farmers market until we get that store open. Our goal is to be at both, but I will do a better job at saying where we're going to be from here on out. I may just put it in the community posts. So if you are subscribed, you will see that on the Community post. Check on the community posts, or even you can check our Facebook page, and I'll do a better job of making sure that you guys know where we're going to be through our Facebook page, air to ground farms or on our air to ground farms community post. So again, we apologize for dropping the ball on that. [00:44:07] Speaker A: Yep. [00:44:07] Speaker B: We own it and we will do better. [00:44:10] Speaker A: Yep, for sure. And I mentioned a podcast that we did in January. I'll leave a link to it so that you can check that out if you're interested. Again, it was about Chevron doctrine and that deals with the court ruling, a Supreme Court ruling that gave government agencies seemingly unlimited power. And we chatted a bit about that so you could check that out, if that interests you at all. [00:44:43] Speaker B: And they're about to rule on it again. [00:44:45] Speaker A: Yeah, the Supreme Court is due to rule to make a ruling somewhere in the moon, probably that's why we were talking about it in January, is because it came before the Supreme Court to maybe turn this off or at least tone it down a bit. And so the court took that case and they expect the ruling to happen early summer, June to maybe into July. And I hope we'll be able to do an update, I hope, with good news. [00:45:18] Speaker B: And until next time, bye.