[00:00:00] Speaker A: Like many aspects of life, the cancer journey has many twists and turns, from diagnosis to treatment. Sometimes things don't go exactly as we had planned. Today we're going to talk with my mom about maybe a twist or turn that happened between our last conversation of diagnosis to where she sits now with her treatment.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: After 25 years in the air, course Rich was a fighter pilot. We left the Department of Defense behind and decided to start a farm to grow the best food that we can. And in that journey, we've started a podcast. And this is it. Welcome to the Duster Mud podcast, episode 43.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: In today's episode, we're going to have another chat with my mom and give her the opportunity to talk a bit about what has transpired since we chatted last. So, mom, welcome back to the podcast room. Welcome back. For those of you who missed the last podcast, just a quick review, if you would, please. Okay, where you are, what's going on with your life right now?
[00:01:07] Speaker C: Okay, so just quick review. From screening mammogram in November, to 3d mammogram and ultrasounds and needle biopsy in January, to MRI very recently, February the 13th, followed up by the most recent thing, which was the appointment with my breast cancer surgeon on the 20th.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Okay, so the last time we chatted, you had not had the MRI yet.
[00:01:44] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: So we discussed your diagnosis, which was invasive lobular carcinoma, ILC, and we had discussed briefly, I think, that it was a single small mass that was found that they did a needle biopsy on and then did not like the results. And that's where the diagnosis came from. And then from that, we needed to follow up with an MRI.
[00:02:17] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: I know that there are some things that you wanted to talk about. There's one thing that's been bothering me, though, and I want to get your, I don't know, thoughts or take or feelings. Maybe there's a push pull in the diagnostics field, and that really centers around what is the best for the majority of people versus individual and individual treatment. And with your case specifically, I feel like those things really clash or come to a head, if you will. In this case, we see it, I think, very visibly, where you have a type of cancer, that 10% of people that are diagnosed with breast cancer have this type of cancer, but yet it doesn't show well on the pre cancer screenings.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: So, as I was looking at this, we've got almost 290,000 new cases of breast cancer annually, which means that there are almost 29,000 people who are potentially going undiagnosed based on the screenings that are best for the majority of people.
[00:04:07] Speaker C: Right.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: So as I'm trying to wrap my brain around my mom and cancer, I'm not being able to come to a healthy spot with the clash of individual treatment versus what's best for the population.
[00:04:31] Speaker C: Right.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: And it often revolves around, in this particular case, the finances, really, of the medical policy.
It's being difficult for me.
What are your thoughts? You're the one having to deal with it. Right. It's your person.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: What are you thinking to chime in? Also, I had a mammogram about two weeks ago, got the results back, and it said normal findings, which is excellent.
[00:05:08] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:09] Speaker B: Unfortunately, there's a 10% chance that they just don't see it.
[00:05:15] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: So that to me, is a little, that's a problem.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: What are your thoughts?
[00:05:20] Speaker C: Well, the only thing I can really think of to answer that would be that as you guys probably, if you watched the previous podcast, I an information gatherer, and so I've done a good bit of research, and apparently it's in breast cancer years, fairly recent, maybe in the even 90s recently, that they discovered, and I'm sure it's due to better technology and being able to have a microscope that sees the cells. They've really only recently discovered that there really are two different types of breast cancer. Okay. And perhaps there are more, we don't know. But I'm just saying it's a very recent development for them to differentiate between ductal carcinoma and lobular.
So therefore, you start with that.
Let's say they've researched, quote, breast cancer for 60 years, but only 20 years ago discovered that at the cellular level, they're two distinctly different things.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:39] Speaker C: And so you really have far fewer years of research available to help you be able to even diagnose it. And so I'm hoping and thinking that as they continue to input information into the worldwide data system, that they may be able to come up with something more affordable and more available that can diagnose it at an earlier stage. Right, got it. A lump is, and that's the general standard of care, examine yourself in the shower at least once a month, feeling for lumps. And the lobular carcinoma forms in a linear fashion and doesn't create until it's pretty far along anything that you would be able to see in the skin or in the shape of the breast or be able to feel.
So that would be my only thing, is that it's just such a recent discovery that they are two distinctly different types of cancer.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: Got it. Okay, cool. So what have you learned? You had your MRI, and the last time we talked, I don't remember if we went into the specifics, but we were thinking lumpectomy.
A small, around two centimeter mass.
[00:08:14] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: Okay. Is where we were at the diagnosis discussion as we move to a treatment discussion now with more information, where are we?
[00:08:25] Speaker C: What have we learned? Well, I met with Dr. Flyn on February 20, as I said, and she's wonderful. I love her so much. I just am like, okay, this is my girl. We got this. And she started out just kind of reviewing the pathology and different various things because my brain already says we're at 2.2. Got this.
Well, then she said, moved on to the MRI, the results of the MRI, and she said that there are three tumors that showed up in the MRI.
And due to your research and my brain. Oh, yeah. As a result of my research, my brain went, oh, we know where this is going.
Because if there's more than one, it's just not feasible to do a lumpectomy. Right. And the largest one is 10.8. Brain really went, oh, this is really bad. What is that?
[00:09:33] Speaker B: Inches, really?
[00:09:35] Speaker C: About 4.23, give or take.
Inches from. It sounds like near the skin level around the nipple area, back to within a very small.
One of the reports said 2 within the pectoralis muscle. In other words, just back close to the muscle.
And so I knew immediately.
And so it's called left. Total mastectomy with sentinel lymph node biopsy.
In other words, surgery.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: She's going.
[00:10:22] Speaker C: I will have surgery. Yeah. It's scheduled for March the fourth at St. John hospital in tulsa. So if you're thinking of me, that's where I'll be that day. I don't know exactly what time yet. They call me. They're supposed to call on Friday the first. And give me a time, just a little. I have to tell you all, like, an anecdotal here, but a little story. I'm so calm and academic, and my brain is. Huh? Yep, this is bad. We're fixing up tough surgery. And so I was fine. I told her about how I watched the entire breast cancer symposium at the Cleveland clinic, every speaker, because I like to get information. She was kind of, you know, a little shocked, but I think she was even more shocked when she started kind of talking specifics about the surgery.
And my son's call sign is psycho. And that nut did not fall far from the tree because I went up that tree so fast. I passed every squirrel along the way, and I was like, oh, God. Oh, God, you have to knock me out. You have to knock me out. Like you're going to knock me out, right? Because I am not doing this awake. And she's like, you will be under general anesthesia. And then she said something about a nerve block, and I'm like, wait, what are you talking about? Well, it's like a shot.
I said, oh, let me tell you something. I will never, ever again sign a consent for an epidural, and we are not doing that. She's like, it's not an epidural, and you'll be under anesthesia. And so it took me a minute. I came back down out of my tree. I'm like, okay, we're good. Moving right along.
[00:12:06] Speaker A: As we were reviewing your doctor's notes, and we noticed that the note included a comment of PTSD from a previous surgery. We were wondering whether or not that was the doctor's diagnosis or yourself diagnosis.
[00:12:23] Speaker C: I never said that word. But somehow she picked up on it. She's not even a psychiatrist. But I laughed when I read that in her notes. I was like, well said. Well said. Because it's like that, y'all. And, I mean, I can feel it. I know it's happening, but I also cannot make a stop. I just have to go sit in my tree and freak out for a little bit. And then I just, okay, calm back down and quit acting crazy. You're good.
Oh, gosh. But anyway.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: We use the big words about what the surgery is. It's a complete removal, and then they will check the lymph nodes during the surgery and determine if there are any cancerous cells that have made their way into the lymph nodes and make a decision real time as to whether or not they will remove those nodes.
[00:13:18] Speaker C: Well, they call them sentinel nodes because if you look at a picture, apparently your lymphatic system is, like, amazing.
Our bodies are amazing. And apparently that lobule, where it started, where the cancer started, it drains into, it looks like four to six specific lymph nodes. And I'm not going to go into necessarily the details of how the surgeon finds those lymph nodes, but it has to do with an injection and radioactive dye prior to beginning of surgery and knocking me out anyway.
And they do remove those?
Yes, those are removed. And generally speaking, and I'm sure in this hospital as well, they are sent to pathology during surgery. They're able to identify it real time. The surgeon will know it in real time. And if they have cancer in them, then they remove. I think it's somewhere around 13.
And they call them axillary. Ax I-L-L-A-R-Y nodes. In other words, it's like almost all of the ones under your arm into armpit.
[00:14:45] Speaker A: Got it.
Okay, I see.
So you made some comments during the last discussion about things that have changed in your life.
How is that going?
[00:15:01] Speaker C: Well, as you can imagine, I continue to gather information, but not about a lumpectomy this time. We're all about a mastectomy. So I don't know. I have a friend that I worked with, and I know she'll watch this, and she'll know who I'm talking about. She's like, you're just out there. She said, I watched that. And I said, oh, that is so Linda. And she said, but me, I'm ostrich. It's like she puts her head in the sand. She does not want to know anything. And I'm like, oh, yeah, no, I'd rather know. It's not that I can change anything, but at least I feel like somehow I feel like I feel better. So, of course, I continue to gather information.
I also continue no estrogen supplements.
And I mentioned that to the surgeon, and she showed me, like, she drew a little picture of the cancer, and then she drew these little dots all around it, and she said, yours is hormone receptor positive. It is 100% estrogen receptor positive. And she said, so those little estrogens are all just floating around there. And you have receptors on those cancer cells that they use that estrogen to proliferate or grow. So no estrogen. Continue gathering information.
And last time, I mentioned or talked a good bit about, if you want to call it ketogenic lifestyle. In other words, zero sugar, no sugar. It's that sugar is done. And just really trying to restrict carbohydrates.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: Certainly processed foods.
[00:16:45] Speaker C: Oh, good grief. Yes. Right?
It's a meat and a vegetable. Hopefully something we purchased here on farm, because we know it's good, clean food and vegetable. That if it wasn't something I grew last summer, then something purchased. But you can't eliminate every carbohydrate out of your life. But really restricting my carb intake and being very aware of how many. Well, I haven't told you guys this before, but I'm sure you will not be surprised that, of course, I had to order ketone strips from Amazon.
Y'all know I have to have data, you know, so I waited probably, like about three weeks.
Um, and I don't do it like, five times a day, like, at once or twice. A day or every couple of days.
I don't know if you want to say this word, pee on the little strip, but I'm about on the chart. It's kind of like testing your swimming pool water.
And I won't say dark magenta. It's right in the middle. It's at 4.0, like on the magenta color scale. And of course, I had to ask Dr. Google what that meant, and it just said moderate. So I feel like I'm right in the middle.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: That's really good.
[00:18:15] Speaker C: Yeah, great. Is anything, like over there past five is a little too much?
[00:18:24] Speaker B: It's like you're sitting right where you need to be.
[00:18:26] Speaker C: It sounds like I'm sitting right.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:18:27] Speaker C: I will also say that I have lost an entire 2.4 pounds. Seriously, your dad says, man, this keto diet you're on is really working. I've lost eleven pounds and I'm like, I could say bad words, but I won't. I give you a salute.
But like Rich said, for me, yes, I could certainly stand to lose weight, but that's not the objective. The objective is cancer cells upregulate glucose, right? And so even if it's one little speck of a receptor on a cancer cell that wants to gobble up glucose as it goes by, I'm saying, no, I am continuing to do that and plan to continue to be proactive and be aware of the carbs. Sure. That's where I'm at.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: Well, good. Well, your hair looks different.
[00:19:29] Speaker C: Really?
[00:19:31] Speaker B: It's cute.
[00:19:32] Speaker C: It is. It looks really good. Perky. Yes. Well, if you watched last time, you might have been able to tell, but it was pretty long. It's probably a little hard to tell on the video, but there are so few things in this situation that you have any control over. And it's easy to feel helpless, you know, and it's very easy to grieve. So many different lifestyle changes that are, as I am very well aware of, are going to be coming along. And so I said, you know what? I'm not going to allow this to make all the choices for me. Control freak. I'm going to make my own choice about my haircut and I'm not going to grieve it either.
We know that. Probably going to spend some time, according to the surgeon, a month, not even being able to take a shower. So we'll have to work with that. I'm going to research, like sponge bath, but I'll have to do some research. But anyway, you're going to have to lean your head over in the kitchen sink to try to wash your hair. And that was a lot of hair. So I said, you know what? We're cutting it off.
And so this morning we got the whole fam involved, and you guys will have to see. It was a lot of fun. We had a good time, and we laughed and enjoyed. It's.
Thank you.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: Do you love that little straight up?
[00:22:19] Speaker C: It looks kind of like a little peacock.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:22:29] Speaker C: Do you got the little tip?
And kind of an aside, so to speak. A few years back, my hair had grown out. I cut it off, and I was told by a colleague about an organization.
Really, it's an all voluntary organization. It's called locks of love. Locks. Like locks, and they're stationed or they're housed there in West Palm Beach, Florida, and you can donate your hair to them.
And they then, however, I don't know how the whole process, but they have wigs made from real human hair for cancer patients.
And so I don't even know why, but the other day, it just hit me, and I was like, I haven't sent my hair locks of love in years. I'm going to look it up. Yep, they're right there on the Google phone number. Called them up. Lady was just precious. So kind and so supportive. And I. Brief overview of the situation. And she started with, first, let me say that we are with you on your journey, and we are sorry to hear about it.
You just were like, oh, that's so sweet. And yes, we would like to have your hair. And according to their website, they wanted at least ten inches, but they said they don't actually use gray hair, but they do send it to a manufacturer. And she said it could be made into, like, two pays for men and this and that. And then those people get a discount when they purchase the product.
So bottom line is, for me, not only is it okay, it was my decision, and I'm cutting it off, and I'm not going to grieve it. And we had fun doing it. And my husband loves it. He calls it my wild and crazy hairdo. That's always good. Oh, he loves it. He said that just now. I got out of the shower with it and shook it around. He's like, oh, you got your wild, crazy hair, but you feel.
Not you, I should say. I feel, I don't know, encouraged or just this positive feeling and feeling like I'm doing something to help someone else.
And so you come away with it. Well, you all know when. After I talked to the lady yesterday, I was like, giddy when I walked back in here. I was like, oh, y'all, I can't wait to tell you what I just found out. Just to give you some more specific information about locks of love, if you or anyone you know has chosen to cut your hair off, it's a great organization. It's all volunteer. Their street address is 234 Southern Boulevard in West Palm Beach, Florida, and their email is
[email protected] and like I said, the phones are manned by volunteers and they're wonderful people and it's just something you can feel good about. Maybe you're contributing to something that will help other people.
So grab every little positive aspect of this that you can, or at least that's how I have to operate.
[00:26:12] Speaker A: Oh, sure.
[00:26:13] Speaker C: Absolutely. I won't deny that I freak out and I go at my tree, but every time that you can anchor yourself to the ground is, yeah, that's that. I wanted to make sure I say to you guys, shelley's coming over for surgery day and spend a couple of days and all, but I want you guys to know that you have not only my permission, but my encouragement over the next few weeks. Anytime you wanted to follow up with people, because I'm new to this format.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: You don't seem like it.
[00:26:58] Speaker C: I'm old.
But I have so enjoyed your comments that you sent from my previous time.
It's just strange to me how I can almost feel like I know you.
When someone said, I'm hoping to get out of this world with all my body parts, I thought, oh, you are my sister, spirit sister or brother or whatever. I'm like, oh, I like you.
So if you guys want to give an update, maybe after surgery, after the pathology report, you're welcome to do that because it'll probably be at least mid April before I get over here.
That was pretty much it. That's what I wanted to say.
My verse that hit me this week, if you will.
I'll try to get it right this time because I actually wrote it down. Isaiah 26 three. And it says, the steadfast of mind you will keep in perfect peace because he trusts in you and so steadfast. Of course, you all know I had to look it up. Old english stead just means stand fast is firm. So because you all know that I tend toward squirrel up the tree thing, and I have that circular, obsessive thinking. Like I said, I think it through and then I recycle it and think it all again. So I need this. I need it like constant reminder, stand firm.
The stand firmer in mind.
God or the Lord will keep in perfect peace. I need any kind of peace. I'll take any peace there is perfect is great, but any kind of peace, because I trust in him. And so I'm like, okay, he's got this. It's like I hear him saying, come down out of the tree.
I got you.
That's where I'm at. So you all please comment. Share if you think it will help someone else.
[00:29:15] Speaker B: And pray if you do.
[00:29:16] Speaker C: And pray. Yeah. Pray. March 4.
My doctor is Dr. Lori Flyn.
For me, specifically, perfect peace. Get me down out of the tree. Because that days, hours and minutes right before they call me back there, it's just like I'll be vibrating. Makes me sweat just to think about.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: So I'm good for comic relief.
[00:29:42] Speaker C: Well, as we do.
We did that with all the things, papa.
That's right.
[00:29:51] Speaker B: Okay, ladies, so make sure you're getting your mammograms. Do the best that you can to do yourself checks. And that's how we combat this thing. Even 90% we can catch. Right? And hopefully the technology continues to move forward in detecting this specific kind of cancer as well. We appreciate you guys listening and hanging out with us again. And until next time, bye.
