BIG FUSS over RAW MILK!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Are you one of over 10 million Americans that chooses food freedom in your blatant disregard for what the FDA recommends about raw milk? [00:00:11] Speaker B: Welcome to the Duster Mud podcast. This is episode number 69. My name is Rich. [00:00:16] Speaker A: And I'm Shelly. [00:00:17] Speaker B: We spent 25 years moving around the world. I was a fighter pilot in the United States Air Force. And when that career ended, we moved here to the ozarks of Missouri and started a regenerative farm. As part of our farm, we have a dairy cow or four. [00:00:35] Speaker A: Well, we've got one in milk. [00:00:37] Speaker B: One of them is in milk. And we produce raw milk. We're going to discuss raw milk today and how it ties to food and specifically food freedom. The most recent surveys you can find are from 2016 to 19 timeframe, and it says that there's over 10 million american adults that consume raw milk at least once in a year. That's a lot. [00:01:04] Speaker A: That's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot more, actually, than I. Than I thought or knew about. Kind of new to this space over the last few years, because, as you mentioned, we were the air force thing, we didn't have access to such a thing, so we really didn't become educated on it until recently. [00:01:21] Speaker B: There's a concerted effort right now from the federal government, though, to stop the sale and consumption of raw milk. I'll leave a link to an FDA open letter that was sent out to all of the states and their departments of health and in which the FDA is encouraging the states to do basically anything within their powers to stop raw milk. [00:01:49] Speaker A: With all of this in the news recently, we thought that it would be a really good idea just to talk about the basics of raw milk and how we got here today. The history of raw milk, where did it. Well, guess what? It was always there, you know? But how did we get to here? With our regulations and our policies, that history. [00:02:09] Speaker B: Yeah. For thousands of years, you can find evidence of dairies among human populations for thousands of years. So consuming milk is not a new thing. Consuming milk is something that's been going on for a long time and millennia. Yeah, yeah. And, like, it wasn't considered raw milk because there wasn't anything else. It was just milk. Right. I mean, like, that's. That's all there was. [00:02:36] Speaker A: Right. And so we've had milk for millennia. People have been drinking it. There have been dairies. But it, during the industrial revolution, is where the problems kind of arose with the milk industry and the dairy industry, with something they called swill dairies. [00:02:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So it changed from in that time period, it changed from the family milk cow to the families were starting to coalesce inside the big cities. And because there wasn't really refrigeration at that time, the way that they chose to deal with it was to move the dairies closer to the people. So the people moved to the cities. So then they moved the cows into the cities with the people. [00:03:20] Speaker A: Right. They didn't have refrigerated trucks like we have today. They had no way of transporting that milk quickly to the consumers. So it did make a lot of sense to get the cows and the milk closer to the people. [00:03:34] Speaker B: What didn't make sense though, is they moved them into some really bad environment. Like, it was a squalid, I think, is the word that you typically see written about it. And these swill dairies, they fed the cows leftover brewers yeast. So they went from eating grass on pastures to eating waste products, from brewing different types of alcohol. And they piled the cows on top of each other. And the conditions were bad, the food was bad, and probably not surprising to most of you, the cows got sick. [00:04:14] Speaker A: Well, the overall sanitation during the industrial revolution was nothing like what we have today, period. Running water wasn't what it is today. Indoor plumbing wasn't what it is today. And they certainly didn't have the germicides that we have today. There was no chlorine bleach, so there wasn't anything. There wasn't. I'm sure that they cleaned things to the best of their abilities, I guess, but they didn't have what we have today in that technology. [00:04:43] Speaker B: So the end result of the swill dairies was disease was passing through the milk, and people were getting sick and dying. Like, there were children dying. [00:04:56] Speaker A: Like a lot of thousands of children died because of this milk coming out of these inner city dairies. [00:05:02] Speaker B: Right? So there were like, instead of moving the cows and the people out of the cities, right, like that would, that would be one way of doing things was, okay, this didn't work, we'll move the cows back out. But we still don't have refrigeration, so we would have to move the people out as well. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:22] Speaker B: What happened was pasteurization had been discovered a few years prior, and they tried it with milk and started pasteurizing the milk that was contaminated coming out of these swill dairies, and found that the pasteurization killed the bacteria and the diseases that were passing through the milk. So it was hailed as like life. It was a miracle. [00:05:50] Speaker A: Yeah, really, it was a miracle. In the food industry at that in that period of time. And it was. It solved their problem. [00:06:02] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Infant mortality. So the, the amount, the number of children that were dying as infants decreased significantly after they introduced pasteurization of milk coming out of these nasty dairies. [00:06:19] Speaker A: Right. Okay. So let's keep going forward. [00:06:23] Speaker B: So in, by 1948, then, Michigan was the first state that outlawed the sale of raw milk. So now we start getting into, not only are we trying to do it for the health and welfare of people, but now the government has stepped in and started making regulations regarding, uh, milk. [00:06:46] Speaker A: How milk can be sold, where it can be sold, and how it can. All of the consumer protection really kicked off. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Right? I believe, yeah. [00:06:56] Speaker A: About that time. [00:06:56] Speaker B: About that time in 1948 with Michigan. Yeah. [00:06:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:01] Speaker B: Um, by 87, we had. 1987, sorry, 1987 we had a federal law prohibiting the sale of raw milk between states. So the federal government did not step in to what happens inside states, but it prohibited interstate sale of raw milk. And from there, it has continuously progressed. Now there's a resurgence right now in raw milk, and that is seen as far back as what I was talking about in that 2016 to 2019 surveys where over 10 million us adults consume raw milk. And from what we've been hearing, seeing, reading, that number is increasing. I can't find anything. I'd love to if you guys have a source. I wasn't able to find anything that has. Like how many? Like any. Any recent surveys. [00:08:05] Speaker A: I think that's going to be data that's going to be difficult for us to find because in so many states where it's illegal, people are consuming it, labeled as pet food and doing things going, doing the roundabout in order to be able to access the food that they want because it's not legal, they're not going to say, yeah, I also do you know, if it's because it's such a gray area thing for them, in some states, you. That may be data that's difficult to really actually get the raw. The raw number. [00:08:35] Speaker B: But we, we are seeing a resurgence. [00:08:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:08:39] Speaker B: And as movements go more towards local foods, raw foods, fermented foods, as people are becoming more and more cognizant of probiotics and gut health. Yeah. [00:08:53] Speaker A: Our microbiomes and feeding them and with the new knowledge about what's going on in our bodies and the benefits of the live bugs being in our foods, because for years we didn't eat live food, kimchi would be considered a live food. We didn't grow up on that stuff. Correct. All of the food that we kids, we were eighties kids, we grew up on dead food, for lack of better wording. Everything was dead and cooked to the nines, and there wasn't anything we didn't eat. Fermented foods. Maybe some yogurt, I guess, if they were using. We didn't eat a lot of yogurt, though, when we were really growing up, but that would be the only probably live food that we would have consumed. I know. You didn't eat any when you were little? [00:09:48] Speaker B: No. [00:09:49] Speaker A: So the resurgence of wanting the live food back in, being able to consume that and get our hands on it. [00:09:57] Speaker B: Right. And with that resurgence, we're also seeing a similar surge in the government's push towards quelling that, you know, like the FDA open letter. [00:10:13] Speaker A: Yeah, they. It's like the more people push wanting that food freedom and food choice, the more the regulatory agencies are pushing back against you being able to get it. At least that's the way that it feels and the way that it sounds in their open letter. [00:10:31] Speaker B: Well, and it's leading towards things like Joel Salatin's Rogue food conference, which he's holding multiple times a year now all over different spots in the country. The most recent, I believe, was on his farm in May. And they get together and talk about, how can we find food freedom? How do we do this? How can we work within the laws? How can we work around the laws? How can we do things that allow for the freedoms that some of us at least believe we have over what food we consume? [00:11:10] Speaker A: Yeah. The group of people are very passionate that are putting those things on. Very, very passionate about the rights that we believe that we have in what we consume. And I believe that also that we have the right to consume the food that we want to. If I want to eat a raw egg, I can. They say not to, they recommend not to, but they don't cook it for me. I have the option to buy the egg raw. [00:11:50] Speaker B: You do? [00:11:51] Speaker A: I could buy it, I guess, cooked also, sure. But I. They sell the egg raw. They say, hey, don't. Don't eat it raw. It could make you sick. And you go, okay, well, I'm still gonna make my ice cream with raw eggs if I want to. Right, right. That's my choice. But in this department, raw milk versus cooked milk, which is what pasteurized milk is. It's just cooked milk. There's no choice there. Put them side by side. Hey, we have cooked milk here, if you like that. We also have raw milk. We don't recommend you drink it, but. [00:12:27] Speaker B: You know, it's your choice. [00:12:29] Speaker A: It's your choice. Maybe take it home and cook it, make yogurt, do whatever you want with it, or drink it. But the fact is, you can have the choice, just like with a raw egg. [00:12:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Since it's very easy to find, especially today, all of the government discussions on the detrimental effects of consuming raw milk, we wanted to make sure that we throughout there, hey, here are some of the things that at least the proponents of raw milk see as benefits of raw milk. [00:13:06] Speaker A: Right? [00:13:07] Speaker B: So what are these 10 million plus Americans that are consuming raw milk? What are they. What are they after? [00:13:15] Speaker A: One of the things that they're after is natural enzymes and bacteria that are. That occur in the milk when it's raw. And if it's pasteurized, you don't get that. And they believe that bacteria and those enzymes to be, to assist them in the digestion of the milk. And many people say that they can't really digest the cooked milk or the pasteurized milk as easily, and it kind of gives them digestive discomfort. But whenever they consume the raw milk, that the bacteria helps them in their digestive process. [00:13:45] Speaker B: And we hear that a lot. You know, we, we do. We sell raw a two. A two milk. And some folks have issues with the types of proteins that are in milk, and we sell milk that has a different type than what you would find in the grocery store. But a lot of people say that it's actually not the type of protein, it's the fact that it's just not pasteurized, that the bacteria that are still alive in the milk help them to digest the milk, even if it's not the a two milk. Like what we sell, a lot of. [00:14:18] Speaker A: People believe that there is a higher nutrient content in raw milk because it has not been cooked and the nutrients are there and bioavailable in the original form, because whenever we know, when we heat things up, things change, and things are not as bioavailable, meaning our bodies can't, don't have access to it and can't use it as readily. So they believe that they're getting more nutrition from the raw milk rather than pasteurized. [00:14:54] Speaker B: And if you look into the research, another one of the key factors as to why people are drinking raw milk is they say it tastes better. [00:15:04] Speaker A: Oh, it does. [00:15:05] Speaker B: They believe that it tastes richer, creamier, like it just tastes better. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I kind of think it does. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, ours is a Jersey cow, and we've never really had just pure Jersey milk before. So, like, I don't. I don't know from. I do believe that our milk tastes better right but I don't know. I can't. I don't know that it's because it's unpasteurized or not homogenized or, you know, like, I'm not sure about it or. [00:15:33] Speaker A: If it's just because it's coming from a jersey. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Full cream from a jersey. Like, that's. That's good milk. That's really good. So I don't. I don't know, but a lot. That is one of the main reasons that you see why people will choose raw milk. [00:15:47] Speaker A: Another interesting thing about raw milk is it, it has a ferments rather than spoils because the bacterias are still in the milk that were naturally there. The milk, when it's sitting on the counter, changes form rather than actually spoiling and getting rotten, because the. The way the bacterias work and what they're consuming and the acid that. [00:16:12] Speaker B: I got to go nerdy a little bit. Harold quirky. I gotta go a little nerdy on this one. So it contains lactobacillus. It's a lot of different types of lactobacillus bacteria. And when they start growing, they make their environment acidic. And those lactobacillus bacteria are beneficial to human guts, not harmful. But as they make the environment acidic, that environment now kills the bacteria that are harmful to human guts. So it's naturally occurring bacteria that is in the raw milk. And as it grows, it kills the bad bacteria, and then it changes the form of the milk, like what you were saying. It starts to get thicker, it starts to get tangier, and the tangier, more acidic it gets, the more there is that lactobacillus bacteria, many of you have. [00:17:08] Speaker A: Probably heard of kefir. Yeah, I just made some today. I added some kefir starter to some milk in a jar, and I left it sitting on the counter for two days. And today we drank it, and it was tangy, and it was delicious, and it was wonderful, wonderfully fermented milk that is good for you. You cannot do that. [00:17:32] Speaker B: No. [00:17:32] Speaker A: With pasteurized milk. [00:17:34] Speaker B: Well, and even if you didn't add the kefir starter, if you just leave it out there. [00:17:38] Speaker A: Well, you can do it with pasteurized milk. I'm sorry. You can. You would. I would just have. I would have cooked it first and then let it cool, and there would have been a whole nother process I could have made kefir from. But it's just easier to make with raw milk. [00:17:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:50] Speaker A: So much easier. [00:17:50] Speaker B: But raw milk, if you didn't add the starter to it and you just put it on the counter in the same manner it. It clabbers. [00:17:58] Speaker A: Yes, it does. [00:17:58] Speaker B: So the lactobacillus bacteria continues to reproduce to the point that it starts to thicken the milk and it turns into what is called clabber. And that then can be eaten like a yogurt, basically. It's not as tangy as yogurt, but it has about the same texture as yogurt. And you can let it go further and it turns into quark and you can start straining it and make clabber cheese, like. But it hasn't. You haven't done anything to it, right? You've just let it sit out. [00:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:32] Speaker B: You cannot let pasteurized milk just sit out. [00:18:35] Speaker A: No. That will make you sick. [00:18:37] Speaker B: It will spoil. [00:18:38] Speaker A: It will spoil? [00:18:38] Speaker B: Like, it will actually spoil where raw milk doesn't. The naturally occurring bacteria in it just change it into different things as it ferments? [00:18:49] Speaker A: Like magic. [00:18:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:52] Speaker A: To me. [00:18:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:55] Speaker A: Hey, another cool thing is you can get it local, local sourcing. And you brought that up just a minute ago. The local food movement is really awesome and people wanting more raw foods, locally grown. I need to know where this came from is a big deal. It's a big deal to us as a local farmer producing food for our local community and getting milk straight from a farmer. Yeah, super cool. [00:19:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And one thing that our friend Bill pointed out to me just today was just because it's local doesn't mean it's good, though. Like, you still need to know what's going on with your farmer. Go see him, go visit him. Like, we try to make everything as open as we can. Like, we put. We put it on YouTube. Like, here's how we milk our cows. You know, like, but, like, go look at the condition that the cows are living in. Go look at the cows. Are the cows healthy? Are they living in squalor? Right. Like, if it. [00:20:02] Speaker A: If it smells bad, it's probably, you know, like, if you go into a farm and it. It's off putting to your nose first, stay awhile and dig a little deeper and see how, like, are things clean? That's really, really what you're looking for. You're not looking for sterile, but are things clean and not offensive? [00:20:23] Speaker B: Because the idea behind the raw milk produced on a farm like ours is we've gone back in time to the way that it was before we moved the cows into the city, before we started feeding them waste products from brewers, you know, from making alcohol, before we piled them on top of each other. Like, they are back to out on pasture. They're eating grass. We, though, have the benefit of, we can sterilize the bottles. It immediately goes into a very cold refrigerator. We have benefits that they didn't have for thousands of years. We're raising the cows the way that they were. Plus we have refrigeration. [00:21:13] Speaker A: So it's all the, it's even better. [00:21:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:16] Speaker A: You know, welcome to 2024. Some things are better. You know, they really are. We can leave the cows on the pasture, we can let them eat grass, we can take their milk, but we can utilize the technologies that we have today to our benefit and make an amazing product. [00:21:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And the last thing we'll talk about is there are people that are, they have planted their flag and they are taking a stand on this issue. And it is. I have the freedom to consume the food that I want to consume and I want to drink raw milk. And they are standing beside that flag. [00:21:57] Speaker A: And it does seem like raw milk has become the thing, the thing within the food industry that we're going to politicize and divide over within food. And it's unfortunate that it's happening, but it is. Here we are. And, but we wanted to give you guys just a little bit more information that we, than what you would get from the traditional media along with the other agencies that are out there. There is another side you guys have heard from us. [00:22:35] Speaker B: Now, this is the third video in a row we've talked about raw milk. I've very much enjoyed the comments that we've been getting on this. We'd appreciate it if you'd share your thoughts on raw milk. If you are one of the 10 million us adults, or I don't even know how many other adults around the world that are consuming raw milk, why? Like, what are your reasons? And we'd love to hear if you're one of the adults that has chosen not to drink raw milk, we'd love to hear the reasons there, too, right? [00:23:10] Speaker A: Absolutely. Both sides of both are, both are fine and good that I just want everyone, I'm a big advocate for personal food freedom, and so whatever it is that you're, you've chosen. Yay. Yeah, 100%. [00:23:28] Speaker B: Don't question your choice. [00:23:29] Speaker A: No. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Curious about your thoughts and your intentions as to why you make the choice. [00:23:35] Speaker A: Absolutely. Thank you guys for hanging out with us again. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please make sure to subscribe to our channel, and we look forward to hanging out with you again soon. And until next time, bye, y'all. Bye.