Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: In the 1970s, those cats went around the entire country and said, get big or get out.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: In a world where farmers are disappearing, farmland is being gobbled up by billionaires, bankruptcies are on the rise, and Big Ag continues to tighten its grip on the farming sector, why would anyone choose to do regenerative farming?
We're going to look at that today.
[00:00:27] Speaker A: We are going to talk about 10 bold ideas and talk about some opportunities and perhaps even some solutions. Welcome to the Dust or Mud podcast. I'm Shelley and I'm rich. After 25 years of working for the United States government in the Air Force, being a fighter pilot, Rich retired. We started a regenerative farm, as crazy as that might sound. And this past year we grew a bunch of food. And today we want to talk about what would happen if we had more of us.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: On last week's podcast, we got a really good comment that made us. We've been thinking about it for a week and it was one phrase in the middle of a comment that said, but why would anyone want to do this?
[00:01:16] Speaker A: And who, who, who are we going to get to do this?
[00:01:21] Speaker B: Who are we going to get to do regenerative farming?
[00:01:24] Speaker A: And we, we've been thinking about it.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Looked at each other and said, oh.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Great question, great question.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: So this week we want to talk to you about a little bit of the state of affairs. Where are we in farming in this nation? In the United States of America. And then we want to bring you some ideas. We raise the BS flag when we hear the it can't be done and you can't feed enough people and you can't generate enough food. We're saying BS and we're going to tell you why.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: So let's talk about the state of the union right now in terms of farming.
Farmers are on decline.
Oh, yeah, big time.
In fact, there used to be 6.8 million farms in 1935 and currently in 2024, there were 1.88 million.
So we are at a fraction of where we were in terms of farms 90 years ago.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. The average age, it depends on when you, when you look at it, the average age of the farmer today is late 60s. Let's just leave it there. 65 years plus is the average age of farmers. And there's a, a stat that says when the average age of your profession is above, I think it's about 35 years, that profession is in decline.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: So we are in decline as, as a nation with our farmers, median farm household income negative $651. Now, this is across all types of farming, across the whole gamut. And that leads you to think, well, why, really, really, why would anybody do that Whenever you're literally losing money?
[00:03:20] Speaker B: Yeah. 80 plus percent of farm income comes from off farm jobs.
Like there's, there's a lot of stuff that.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: Well, how about the bankruptcies?
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Oh, man.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Farm bankruptcies in 2024 were up 55%.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: And 2025 is on track to be more than 2024 so far in the. The first quarter, first four months. So the first third of the year, there are more bankruptcies in 2025 than there were in 2024.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: And that is a very broad number that doesn't state what type of farming at all. It's just farms in general.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: Okay, so a lot of problems.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Yeah, lots. Yep, lots of problems.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Okay, so if you want to take all of those problems and wrap them up and say, well, we need.
The system is broken. It's not working. This, the way that we're currently operating just is failing. It's failing the American people in terms of their health, it's failing the farmers financially, and it's failing our food supply.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: So something needs to change. But that's a big, big, big problem.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Just how big is it?
[00:04:38] Speaker A: It's big. The scale of that problem.
How many millions of pounds are we talking about?
Okay, we do meet. So let's just talk in terms of meat.
Okay. We do proteins, so let's keep it to what we know and what we do and do a little of a compare and contrast between regenerative small farm and the concentrated animal feeding operations, or CAFOs. Think feed lots. Think 100,000. Bird meat, bird houses. Think hundred.
Well, I don't even know how many hogs they put in a hog house.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Lots.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:05:17] Speaker B: I think to meet the definition of CAFO, it was either 750 or 1000. I don't remember.
[00:05:22] Speaker A: Okay, so let's think a whole bunch of hogs in a hog house and let's compare what we produce, what they produce and see if what the general numbers would look like.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Yeah, the research I was doing says 90% worldwide and 99% in the United States of meat is produced in a cafe.
So that.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: So 99%.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: So that just gives you an idea. And if you start breaking it down into what meat.
Beef is a little less. Chicken is like almost 100%.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: You know, look at us being 1 percenters.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Oh yeah, we're definitely 1 percenters.
But. But like we're talking about 99% of the meat that's produced in this country is produced in a CAFO. And the total amount of meat produced.
100 billion with a B. Pounds per year. Okay, 100 billion pounds.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: So that is A.
[00:06:24] Speaker B: Per year.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: That is a gargantuan is big problem. It's a big problem because if 99% of it, let's just say essentially all of it is being grown there, how do we take that system and flip it over and do something drastically different and still create the amount of food required at £100 billion?
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I wasn't finished with all of my little numbers.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: Oh, hang on a second, y' all.
Go ahead, finish with all your little numbers.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: All right. 27 billion pounds per year of beef.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: 28 billion pounds per year of pork.
45 billion pounds per year of chicken.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: We like us some chicken.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: So that's the individual breakdowns getting us to the, you know, roughly a hundred billion pounds of meat per year, with 99 billion pounds of that being produced in a cafe.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: That's why people say, you can't do it.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: Right.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: Yeah. What you're doing is cute.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:30] Speaker A: We're over here trying to make billions of pounds of meat, Right?
[00:07:34] Speaker B: And I mean, just break it down, right? If, if 99 of it is, is in a CAFO, then that means £99 billion is coming from a CAFO and £1 billion is coming from somewhere else, places like us.
That's a, that's a big problem.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: That is a big problem.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: And I still raise the BS flag and say it can change.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: All right, let's look at some more of your, some more of your numbers.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:08:03] Speaker A: All right. But.
Sorry, I lost my thought.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: Our farm, we are a small farm. We're a regenerative farm. We have 160 acres.
About half of that is grazable, maybe 90 acres grazable, and the rest of it is in forest. So as we were looking at things, we were, we were saying, what about a. Right around 100 acres? If we just rounded it off, said 100 Acre Regenerative Farm, use what we are producing on our farm as a baseline, and then, okay, what does it take?
[00:08:40] Speaker A: How many of us would it require? How many of our type of farms and acres and all of that would. Would it take? Because right now what are we producing?
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Well, I mean, we know that we can do it, right? So, like, it can be done. It's not like a hypothetical, well, you know, blah, blah, whatever. No, we're, we're actually doing it. We got 100 acres. This is what we're producing. So if you use that as a baseline, a known thing, then just start from there. And I mean, obviously 100 acres is not big when you're talking about big ag, you know, like, so start at a small regenerative, multi species farm and see what it would take. And, and is the, you can't do it, you can't get there from here. Is that true?
Right, right.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: Well, all right. With. We think we can do it. Okay. So currently we are raising about a little over 36,000 pounds of meat.
Beef, pork and chicken. This does not even include our lamb throw in. This is just the major, these are the major things.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: Throw the lamb, throw in raw milk, throw in eggs.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: Like we're just talking these meats right here.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: Just the three that we.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: So a little over 36,000 pounds. Yeah, this, this coming this year.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: Okay.
All right, how many? Let's do a little bit of math.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: So what you would do is you take your £100 billion and divide that by £36,000, which is what we produce, and you end up with. It would take 2.75.
So, you know, two and three quarters. 2.75 million farms, farms, regenerative farms like ours.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: Now if we go back up to what we were talking about when we first started talking in 1935, there were 6.8 million farms in this country. There were small holding farms, but there were 6.8 million farms.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: But if you looked at them, you would consider them by today's standards, small multi species regenerative farms.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: They were, that's exactly what you would consider them.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Like they, they used their land to feed their animals and produced, you know.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: So to say 2.76 million, it sounds like, well, you're going to have to increase multiple millions in order to get there. But it's not an out of this world number.
It's just not.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: It's less than what we had it. What is required is less than what we had 100 years ago.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: Okay, so that's the number of farms. How about in terms of acreage?
[00:11:27] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the other thing. Well, we can't do that. There's so many acres required, blah, blah.
[00:11:32] Speaker A: So right now, land use in this country, in order to create the beef and the pork and the chicken is primarily used by monocrops, corn and soy. And those things are grown to feed those animals. And right now, 150 million acres approximately in corn and soy feed, the chickens, the beef and the pork in these concentrated operations.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Yeah. So if everybody transitioned that to a regenerative, if you say 100 acre farm. You need about 276 million acres.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: So if we took those 150 and we incentivized some way, we'll get to it in a second for farmers to flip over and stop planting that and start planting stuff that things can graze and turn them into regenerative land.
There's 150 million right there.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, this isn't it, really.
If you look back in this at the 70s, the, the U.S. department of Agriculture, the secretary went around the country saying, get big or get out. And that was the talking point. And he traveled, he traveled the nation constantly saying, get big or get out. Get big or get out.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Why don't. And they did.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: And they did.
[00:13:12] Speaker A: They got big or they got. They got out.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: And the numbers reduced and the size of the, the farms exploded.
Well, let's say in 2025. Get regenerative or get out. Let's just start a USDA push.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: Flip the script.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Flip the script.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: Mm.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: I mean, that isn't even one of our 10 big, bold ideas.
That's just like, from the USDA perspective.
Take the secretary and go start.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Okay, get.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: Get regenerative or get out.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: Get regenerative. Get out. Cool. That applies to your, Your, your row crop people. But here's the thing.
This is such a big problem.
And even if we said, okay, here's all of the, the, the, the land, let's start farming at regenerative. We don't have the people to do the farming. And we know what it takes to farm like this. And it takes people, and it takes people wanting to do it, ready to it, willing to do it. And right now, in our country, our culture says being a farmer is not something that we want our children to aspire to be.
And they're supposed to go to college and go get a degree and go to the end of the freeway and go sit in their cubicle and go get a job.
That's what our culture says to do.
We, we don't recruit farming. Like, that's not even. That's, that's, that's not a thing.
And, but we do recruit military members.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: We do.
[00:14:49] Speaker A: Somehow or another, the United States government has figured out a way to talk very young people into taking a gun and going and risking life and limb.
They do it, and they do it really, really well.
So if we can do that for our nation's defense, why can't we start recruiting? Or why don't we start recruiting for farming for our nation's defense?
[00:15:15] Speaker B: For I think we should, I think we should too.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: And there are some ideas in that you, that we came up with that kind of promote that type of.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Here we go. Ten big bold ideas.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: Okay. Number one, National Regenerative Corps. This would be something that's similar to the Peace Corps or AmeriCorps, but we're going to really focus on the food and land regeneration.
What would be required?
Let's say two to four years commitment into a program where these kids. Maybe not even kids. Maybe.
Well, anyone?
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: Who wants to learn how to farm and start farming. And one of the, one of the important things would be that it has to be regenerative. And you're going to sit underneath somebody, a mentor, you're going to learn how to do this so that it is successful.
[00:16:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And then coming out of it, maybe you get a loan, forgiveness, maybe you get a stipend while you're there. So it's not just an unpaid apprenticeship. You're actually getting a stipend to learn. And then you get government assistance in some manner because this is a government program. You get assistance in some manner in your startup costs, in your land acquisition with loan forgiveness for continuing a regenerative practice like the idea. You know, you can build on it, but the idea is sound.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: And grants.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Yeah, sure.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Grants so that they can actually go forward and do the thing. Loans. Yes, Low, low interest type things.
[00:17:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:03] Speaker A: Or even student loan forgiveness would be wonderful if you want to go and do something like this.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
Yes, absolutely.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: Okay.
Farming GI Bill.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I think this one is a really good one. We, we have the Montgomery GI bill, the post 911 GI bill, military related GI bills. Right, military related. Where you know, as a benefit of your military service, the United States government is aiding military or former military members in college degrees and getting training.
The post 911 can be used for other things, trades pilot's license. I mean, you know, you can, you can use it for other things. Well, why don't we do a regenerative farming or call it farming GI Bill or regenerative farming GI Bill, something along those lines with the same types of programs that you get from your GI Bill.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: And it would cover things like land acquisition because that's a serious barrier to entry.
How about infrastructure training, initial operation, operation costs and again offering the debt forgiveness for a sustained commitment. So if you have to go into debt in order to buy equipment, if you are, if you do it for X amount of years, we will. There's a debt forgiveness that would, that would happen at the culmination of X amount of years.
Having come from a military background, there are long term commitments required for certain levels of training. For instance, if you go to pilot training in the military, they ask you, actually they don't ask you as part of your agreement and your contract that you're going to serve for 10 years as a pilot or in the military. In the Air Force, you're going to serve for 10 years after that training because it was so valuable.
And if we were creating an environment of value and it was a valuable education to give to these up and coming farmers, then to say, hey you, we're going to give you all of these things but you're going to have to put some skin in the game and we need a commitment that you're going to do this for the next number of years.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Correct.
I think that's awesome. Another one, National Farm Apprenticeship Network.
So come up with a network of practicing regenerative farmers like us and we become part of a national network that then accepts apprenticeship and apprentices and we then can help train the next generation.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: So this would be like a federal or state funded training, but you would be a part, you know, you say the farmer is the facilitator, but you are given something to take these apprentices in and teach them. And maybe they get a stipend while they're there.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe paid, maybe the mentor gets a stipend, maybe the apprentice gets a stipend so that it becomes something that is valuable for both. Because I mean we know having, having an untrained person on a farm does, even though they're extra hands, it doesn't necessarily mean that it relieves work. A lot of times it actually adds work. And so it would have to be beneficial for the regenerative farmer as well, not just the apprentice.
[00:20:38] Speaker A: So I think in this situation we could think of it in like journeyman to master programs. And there are many trades out there who have apprenticeships. You become a journeyman and you, you move through the trade as you increase your, your skills, your skill set, your knowledge, your expertise in that field. And these people can, could follow that similar path. Sure, we can have master farmers and it's not just the old man down the road who, he knows all of the answers. But maybe as we create it could become a career, a profession where you are the one sought after to, to teach the next up and comings.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I could think of quite a few people that I would nominate to be master farmers.
[00:21:28] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
Yeah. And they, they, they would put back to the system not just at the family level.
[00:21:36] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: But more at the national level.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. What about regenerative farming academies?
Like, let's start some schools.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And these things could be tuition free.
It could be something such that, you know, the. Maybe it's a nationally funded or, or as you mentioned before, even state funded and these.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: Or privately funded. There's so much money out there.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Yeah, true.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: There are so much money. Nicole Shanahan, super wealthy individual who is very into regenerative farming. Let's start an account, let's start some academies to teach these young kids how to farm, to teach veterans coming out how to farm. And really, Joel Salatin does an amazing job at bringing interns onto his property, teaching people how to farm. That's great. It's one farm. We got to get this bigger. Yeah, right.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: Environmental groups even.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Environmental groups funding it.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:22:32] Speaker A: Because regenerative farming is a.
I mean, it is, it should be every environmental activist dream.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: Right. A lot of, A lot of folks say that it is the answer to any kind of carbon issues because, you know, by farming regeneratively, you are sequestering carbon back into the soil where it belongs.
So yeah, this should, this should be great. Like an environmental group or all of them should jump right in behind this.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: That's true.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: So regenerative farmer acceleration grants.
So this would be similar to accelerating accelerator grants in technology, except this one becomes. For regenerative farming.
So, you know, the, you need, you need a grant to get over that hurdle, to get the, the thing started.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: So when it comes to farming, the hurdles are they're quite large, they're. They're high. It's not cheap. Growing food is. Especially proteins. It's not cheap, and it really isn't. And so finances are the number one hurdle. And having capital, being able to acquire land, it's. It's just really a chunk of change.
So this particular idea, it would accept large grants. Not here's $10,000. You know, start growing some microgreens. No, I'm talking half a million dollars. Here, take this money. Here's the land you need. Here's. Go get the equipment that you need to be able to actually do it.
And it needs to also include not just a tractor, but also stuff so that you can market it, acquire or be able to pay for processing, distribution. Do you know how much boxes cost, you know, or a truck to deliver?
Yeah, the costs are, are really huge.
So if we could take. Hey, we are a really cool startup. We got a major idea going and we're Headed down this path and you can apply for a half a million dollar grant. And I know that some are out there, but we got to up the, we got to get up the volume.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:59] Speaker A: In the whole thing. Right. So get, get these grants out into people's hands, Right?
[00:25:04] Speaker B: Yep. Absolutely.
I don't know.
Let's do a reality series.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:25:11] Speaker B: Farm like a pro.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: Farm like a pro. Okay. What's that, what's this reality show?
[00:25:17] Speaker B: Well, you know, you take a couple of, you know, however many. I don't know, we've, we're, we're about to have a bunch of producers on the podcast. Maybe we could ask them. But take three or four individuals, slash couples, slash families, and you put them, plop them down on some raw acreage and you give them a year or six months or whatever it is, and build a regenerative farm.
And then the winner keeps the farm.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: Oh, you can win a farm.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: Oh, that would be awesome.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: Farm like a pro.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: That would be awesome.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: And you know who had the, the most success in producing the, the meat, whatever it is, regeneratively?
You know, you can take soil samples. What was the amount of carbon in the soil when it started and when it finished?
Sure. You know, like what did the.
Take a picture. What did the grass look like to begin with at the end?
[00:26:23] Speaker A: It's a really good idea because, I mean, what does, what does TV do? It puts it in front of people. It creates trends, it creates awareness. So people are gonna, I mean, there's like farmer needs a wife out there. I mean, if we're, if we're putting couples together with farmers, how about we put some wannabe farmers with land?
[00:26:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: And let's get those guys married up.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Right. And then, you know, really market it. This is a, you know, each piece of land with the stuff is worth a million dollars or $10 million or whatever it is. You know, and it. Farm like a pro. Win, win a 10 million dollar farm with all of the stuff that goes.
[00:27:01] Speaker A: Along with it and really promote. But it has to be regenerative. And it's really, really promoting and recruiting. Much like the Thunderbirds. Why do the Thunderbirds of the United States Air Force even exist?
They're recruiting tool.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And those things are really cool.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: You know. How many people get to do that?
Like none. I mean, like five of them are in the air. Six of them are in the air. You know, there's very few, but it's an amazing recruiting tool.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: Because it's sexy, you know, it's really cool. And fun looking. But probably you may join the Air Force and like make ID cards. That does happen, you know, but the point is that TV shows really, really do make a difference in how people view a thing.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, and, and then produce it correctly. Right. Don't produce it to, to don't romanticize it. Well, no, don't make it like hillbilly.
[00:27:56] Speaker A: No.
[00:27:56] Speaker B: Right. Like don't. It doesn't have to turn into a tobacco spitting, hay eating contest, you know.
[00:28:03] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:04] Speaker B: Like this is actually we're going to grow, produce, market, sell, you know, this is a business. We're going to show the intellectual side.
How do you learn how to do this? How do you figure how many acres you need to do? Like there's a lot of intellectual.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: Requirements.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: Requirements, rigor, wrassling that goes on with farming.
And show that side of things. Don't just show I'm, you know, sloshing around in cow poop.
[00:28:44] Speaker A: Well, and don't just show the sun rises and the sun sets and all of the beauty behind it. You know, you're going to have to show the struggles. You're going to have to show the even money wise profits and losses and how much did you make? Okay, great on the soil side. But if it was, if that farmer lost money, then that would be part of the equation for the winter too. So that's really fun, fun idea.
Tax incentives.
A lot of people can be influenced by taxes.
[00:29:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And this one is one that you could direct in multiple different lanes. So you can direct it at your regenerative farmer. You get more tax incentives. If you are regenerative by some definition, come up with one.
It could go all the way.
[00:29:35] Speaker A: We're not talking about little either, we're talking about massive. Like let's go big.
[00:29:38] Speaker B: Yeah, right, sure.
[00:29:39] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: And then it could go all the way to the consumer. You know, if in, in Missouri we pay tax on food. Well, if it's, if it's from a certified regenerative farm or whatever, no tax.
So now the consumer has an incentive as well to buy something from a regenerative farm.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: That's a good idea.
[00:30:03] Speaker B: And then, you know, you go anywhere in between there. All of the different places that you know that it takes to get from the farmer to the, the consumer. All of those places offer them a tax incentive for transporting, carrying, putting into a container, like whatever it is, regenerative products, everybody gets a tax incentive across there. Yeah.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: How about a national land bank for beginner farmers? So earlier you said the average age is in their 60s and people are getting out of it.
There's land out there that is not being farmed because the people have gotten older. They don't necessarily want to get rid of it, they're not selling it.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: But yet the next generation doesn't want to do it.
[00:30:56] Speaker A: But the next generation currently doesn't want to do it. They have not been incentivized in any way to want to do that farm.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:05] Speaker A: So what if we said between some government managed lands that are out there.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Already, there's all kinds of programs paying landowners to put their land into conservation easements.
[00:31:19] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:31:19] Speaker B: And that doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be, you know, forest land that can never be touched again.
It can be. This is farmland and it stays farmland.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: So there are these conservation type things could be part of that bank. You know, here's farmland and we match a government conservation farming farmland program with aspiring farmers.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: And if we, if we get that match or the older retiring and the newest aspiring and all that, maybe they get to buy it at a subsidized rates. Maybe we're not going to tax them as much. Maybe we're going to just alleviate some of that financial barrier and get people on the land who want to actually steward it and grow the food.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: Yeah. It could even be like the VA benefits for veterans. In buying a home, you get the possibility of a VA guaranteed loan where you can go all the way to $0 down payment and the VA then guarantees that loan. It could be something like that also where this type of program could say it's going to be a government insured loan that would allow for a $0 down loan, which is really hard to do when you're just buying land. Like not many financial institutions are going to accept a zero dollar down land only purchase.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: Well, something like that would also need to come with built in mentorship training components, succession plans for continuity as the years go.
[00:33:13] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: More ideas. Yeah, more ideas.
Legislative shift, regenerative mandates.
[00:33:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, why not?
[00:33:26] Speaker A: Okay, why not?
[00:33:27] Speaker B: We legislate all kinds of things.
[00:33:29] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:33:33] Speaker B: Let'S legislate it.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: We've talked about some of the stuff that's going on across the different states and nationally on even things like glyphosate, EPA rules on labeling and should that keep a company from being sued.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: So what if we started with a gradual phase out of the CAFOs? Like look, you got to get out of it and do a gradual 10 to 20 year of gradually getting out of the monoculture subsidies.
You know, you can't just Turn the water off.
Right. So a plan of action over the course of 10 to 20 to just ease out of that and into something else, but providing some sort of financial safety net and some financial ease for these people, which talked about a minute ago.
[00:34:29] Speaker B: Yeah. All things we discussed, you know, use any of the programs that we've done. Discussed before. And yeah, it's been almost 10 years since we've passed an actual farm bill. So I think if you could get this, Something like this into law and pass.
Could stick around, it could be long enough lasting to actually make a difference.
[00:34:54] Speaker A: What about a mandate, a certain percentage of farmland under regenerative management by 2040.
And I mean, it seems to me like you could get climate people on board with something like that.
[00:35:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:07] Speaker A: And I'm not all up in the climate stuff by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems like that you could get your. Your farmer types and your other activist types together on something and get something put together to where, hey, buy 20, 40, 10% of the land needs to be regenerate. Farmed. Regenerative.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd go way higher than that. But I, I hear you. And you have to match the mandate with the incentive.
Right. Like, it can't. I. I don't think. Because it would be difficult then, like, do you have a lottery? And like, that's the land that has to be regenerative. You know, like, if you don't, if you don't incentivize it somehow, then people can just say, not my land, you.
[00:35:55] Speaker A: Know, and number 10, how about we start farming the suburbs?
Me and HOAS, or homeowners association associations? Like. No, we kind of clash.
So if I want to paint my door red, I want to be able to do that without asking for some other committee's opinion on the color of my door.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Yeah, but, but we've had. We've had chickens in the suburbs. We've had gardens in the suburbs.
And I know Joel Salatin talks a lot about this type of thing where you farm the suburbs. Grow what you can where you can. Rabbits are almost silent. Like they hardly ever make a noise.
And most places consider a rabbit a pet.
So grow rabbits.
We were allowed to have six chickens when we were in the suburbs of D.C. or what if you.
[00:36:52] Speaker A: We've. What if you partnered with the homeownership associations and you created some partnerships?
[00:36:56] Speaker B: Love it.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: To make green spaces for people to be able to grow food and make it acceptable. Have a garden in your front yard.
[00:37:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:05] Speaker A: Of growing tomatoes or green beans or whatever as your front Shrubbery instead of just shrubs that, you know, really don't do anything but need to be trimmed.
[00:37:16] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't, I don't foresee like thinking back of where we were living in the suburbs of D.C.
when we were actually in the neighborhoods in the suburbs. You're not going to have cows there.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: No, you're not. You don't have enough space for that.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: There's not enough space. But you do have space for chickens, you do have space for rabbit, you do have space for vegetables. You know, like there's, there's definitely. And there are so many houses that.
[00:37:47] Speaker A: So many.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: The scale, you know, again, incentivize it in some way and then, and then take advantage of the scale that, that you have because there are just millions of houses and suburbs.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: You could have micro markets.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:05] Speaker A: Like a little neighborhood like out on the corner. We lived on a four way stop there at the end. We could have had a little micro market right out there on a Saturday. Everybody bring your things, Do a swap.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And actually I raise rabbit, you raise greens.
Microgreens.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: You know, how, how wonderful would it be, you wouldn't have to pay True Green to come fertilize your yard if you could just run maybe a dozen chickens across in a chicken tractor over the course of chicken season.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Or a dozen rabbits.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: Or a dozen rabbits and fertilize as you go. And then we don't have to put the chemicals from True Green on our yards that can't even withstand. Your pets can't even go outside for a bit, you know, after they come and spray the chemicals on there.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: And you know, offering tax credits or grants to homeowners that are also growing, transitioning to some sort of food production.
[00:38:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: The fact is we have to eat food.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: Right.
[00:39:02] Speaker A: The nation needs food. Our food system is currently broken in. The fact that, well, they're spraying chemicals all over it, they're processing it in factories, they're putting it in plastic bags. And it's just not good for us, you know, and growing real whole food still seems to be where this country needs to get back to.
And coming up with some crazy harebrained ideas might be the answer. Right, so what was your favorite one? Real quick? What's your favorite idea of these 10 on the spot question?
[00:39:40] Speaker B: Yeah, on the spot.
I have two. Really. My, my top favorite probably would be the farm. Like a pro TV TV show. I think that that would be, that would be really good for getting awareness out there. But like most impact for me, I like the idea of a, a GI Bill type farmer, you know, regenerative farmer bill for people leaving the military and offer them all like go crazy with it, all kinds of crazy programs. Because the mission mindedness that's required to be a farmer where it doesn't matter what the weather is, it doesn't matter if you're sick or not. It doesn't matter if it's raining or cold or you have to get up, you have to go do the mission that's, you know, that's required for farming. And you've already built that person in a veteran, you've already built that person in the military. So take that effort that it already took to build that, you know, true mission focused person and just shift it a little bit.
And now off they go into farming. I think, I think that you get a whole lot of return on investment with that program. How about you?
[00:41:02] Speaker A: Yes, I really like the, the, the GI Bill.
Take an amount of money, whatever it takes, and like you said, go crazy and really invest in the person that you've already created. And veterans also, they really struggle to find that in their next job.
So it would also help the veteran. Oh, they really purpose and meaning, they leave this brotherhood, sisterhood, purpose driven, they don't get paid much. Purpose driven existence. And when they separate from the military or retire, finding that thing that fills that void and finding that purpose is really, really a challenge. Especially whenever you're talking about the out there just kind of regular economy workforce, just going to a job that is like, what am I doing here?
But man, whenever you're creating something from nothing, whenever you're generating food, whenever you're providing sustenance, it's if it's almost, it's the same but different as what the mission is in the Air Force.
[00:42:27] Speaker B: Right.
[00:42:29] Speaker A: And I think there's even a verse in the Bible, it's very biblical as well, because whenever the, I think it says something to the effect of and the soldier put down his sword and picked up a plow and that, that really speaks to, you know, you're done doing that there. And that mission is so akin to what you were doing. We're gonna pick up a plow and start healing the land.
So now you've, you've defended your country, now let's heal the country.
And it's very fitting for our family, I can tell you.
[00:43:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:11] Speaker A: Wow, this was a really fun discussion.
[00:43:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. You know, I think again, as we wrap it up, I will wrap it up by reiterating, I raised the BS flag on the common talking point of you just can't do it. It's impossible. You can't change from industrial to regenerative farming.
I think you can, and I think that it will take a concerted effort, but not impossible.
There was a concerted effort to get rid of farmers, and it worked.
Let's make that same concerted effort to bring them back and then. And then we do it, right.
[00:44:07] Speaker A: Like, yeah.
We've got a couple of guests coming up on the podcast that are making a concerted effort and have been an author and a filmmaker. Both are coming up. We'll be re recording those in June, and these guys are out there doing their level best to turn the tide.
[00:44:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Educate. Bring awareness, too.
Next week is going to be a great podcast with an author of a new book called Save Our Soil.
Hang on. This is gonna. That one's gonna be a good one.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: Well, thank you guys for hanging out with us again today at the Duster Med Podcast. And until next time, bye, y' all.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: Bye, y' all.
