Skyrocketing Beef Prices | Trump's Solution is Argentina?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Beef. Beef price is beef. Beef from Argentina. We would buy some beef from Argentina. That will bring our beef prices down to beef. And if we buy some beef from Argentina, it would help Argentina. [00:00:10] Speaker B: For over a year, we've been saying that beef prices are going up with no hope in sight. Just a couple of days ago, though, President Trump said something that may prove us wrong. [00:00:20] Speaker C: Welcome to the Duster Mud podcast, where we like to talk about food freedom and farming. And today we're going to talk about food and our food freedom and security in this country. Hi. Hi. I'm Shelley. [00:00:32] Speaker B: And I'm Rich. [00:00:33] Speaker C: Hey. We got a lot to cover today because of Trump's comments. There have been a lot of movements in different markets and sectors and prices, prices, prices. Grocery and namely beef. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Yeah. So we've taken this discussion, broken it down into six different segments with a sidebar thrown in there. You're going to want to make sure that you stick around for segment five, where we go through some potential solutions that we see as well as some potential solutions that we think are really bad ideas. Right. We want to start the discussion with. [00:01:09] Speaker C: What did Trump say? [00:01:10] Speaker B: What did Trump say? [00:01:11] Speaker C: Like, really, what did he say? [00:01:14] Speaker B: Are we expecting a beef deal with. [00:01:16] Speaker A: I assume you're talking about beef. [00:01:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:18] Speaker A: To get beef prices down. The only price we have that's high is beef, and we'll get that down. And one of the things we're thinking about doing is beef from Argentina. [00:01:27] Speaker C: Anytime the President says things, people react. [00:01:32] Speaker B: Yep. [00:01:33] Speaker C: And there was a fairly immediate reaction in the market. And we're not talking about the stock market, but we are talking about the livestock market, right? [00:01:45] Speaker B: Yeah. You can see it very clearly in the cattle futures market on Friday. He made these comments on Thursday. On Friday, there was about a $10 drop in the. And it's a very complicated cattle futures market. It's a 50,000 pound contract and it's per hundred pounds. And so, like, it's complicated. It went from like $382 down to $372. [00:02:17] Speaker C: Okay. But he said that it's going to happen really soon. So he's indicating some decision or policy or something that he is going to do. [00:02:28] Speaker B: Well, he followed that up on Air Force one today, Monday, October 20, 2025, and he made a comment that we. [00:02:38] Speaker A: Would buy some beef from Argentina. If we do that, that will bring our beef prices down because our groceries are down, our energy prices are down. I think we're going to have $2 gasoline pretty soon. We're getting close and everything's down. The One thing that's kept up is beef. And if we buy some beef, I'm not talking about that much from Argentina, it would help Argentina, which we consider a very good country, a very good ally. [00:03:02] Speaker B: So the question is really, what does that mean for you at the grocery store and for the ranchers on the ground? So the discussion today is we're going to look at the battle for America's dinner plate. [00:03:18] Speaker C: Oh, I like that. Because it does feel like a food war across the board, not just with beef prices. [00:03:24] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:24] Speaker C: It's just everywhere. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Segment one, the market today, what you. [00:03:30] Speaker C: See as a consumer, almost $8 a pound ground beef. [00:03:36] Speaker B: If you go to lean ground in August, I believe it was $8.13 a pound, which is higher than national average, national average higher than it's ever been. If you look at just regular ground, the Midwest, the average is $6.59 a pound, and nationally, $6.32 per pound. Both record highs and a 20% increase over this time last year. [00:04:07] Speaker C: Up, up, up. [00:04:08] Speaker B: Yep. Beef and veal, like, together are a. An 11.6% year over year increase versus and you say, well, inflation. Right. Pork and poultry have had a 2% increase. [00:04:28] Speaker C: So it's because the. Well, there are a lot of reasons. The really limited supply that we have going on for. For various reasons that we'll get to in a minute, but we demand has not come down. The American public wants beef, and I agree with them. I want beef, too. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that. I mean, the reality is families are feeling it and the market has been shifting as families have not been reducing the amount of beef they eat. They have just been, instead of buying a ribeye steak or a filet, maybe they're buying a chuck roast or ground beef. So the pounds of beef consumed have remained the same. Like America writ large, is still saying, we want beef, but the reality is there's having to be a sacrifice in the cut of beef. [00:05:25] Speaker C: So what President Trump has done, or what it seems like is he's. He's really looking after the consumer in the decision that he is making to let's import some. If we've got a problem with our supply right now, we need more into the system in order to bring those costs down, just based on basic supply and demand. So his idea, I guess, is let's get some cheaper beef. Let's get more beef into the country. Hey, let's get it from Argentina. Because they are becoming a stronger ally to the United States and we're really trying to bolster them in ways. And so he's saying, hey, let's get some beef, get it into this country so we can bring the prices down for our consumers and help our American families. [00:06:18] Speaker B: And I have a way to. To visualize that. [00:06:22] Speaker C: Okay. [00:06:24] Speaker B: It's. To me, it's like going to the doctor and saying, doc, I've got these migraines. I just have constant headaches. And the doctor says, here's some aspirin. [00:06:36] Speaker C: Okay. That will make my head ache, pain. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Go away, at least be less. [00:06:41] Speaker C: Right. [00:06:42] Speaker B: But it hasn't done anything to try to take care of. Why do you have this migraine? What is the underlying cause? What is causing your illness? Why are you presenting with this? It is simply a. Here's a band aid fix for your wound. [00:07:04] Speaker C: So. So just getting cheaper beef in is not going to solve the problem of. Than our national beef crisis. [00:07:14] Speaker B: Correct. So let's look at segment two. We're moving on. How did we get here? [00:07:20] Speaker C: How did we get to crisis? [00:07:22] Speaker B: Yep. How? [00:07:22] Speaker C: Because I feel like it kind of is that for the American consumer is at that level, it is a bit of a crisis. [00:07:32] Speaker B: Yeah. If it's gotten to the point that the President of the United States is talking about the cost of hamburger, that's. [00:07:38] Speaker C: Yeah. Now he does like hamburgers. [00:07:41] Speaker B: I get it that he likes hamburgers. But we've got, you know, crisis going on in the Middle East. You know, like, of all of the things, the government is currently shut down, like, our military isn't getting paid, and the president is talking about the price of beef. So amongst the. The things that could and potentially should. [00:08:02] Speaker C: Be on his plate. [00:08:04] Speaker B: Be on his plate. Plate. We don't think the price of beef should be one of the. [00:08:10] Speaker C: Okay, but it is. [00:08:11] Speaker B: Put beef on his plate. I think that's great. He should be eating beef. But. [00:08:14] Speaker C: Okay, so off you go. [00:08:17] Speaker B: The US cattle inventory in January of this year was 86.7 million head of cows. That is the lowest it's been since 1951. Lower than it was last year, January of 24, when it was the lowest it had been since 1951. [00:08:38] Speaker C: So it's been low, it's getting lower, and it takes a long time to make it start to even. Start. Even. Start turning up. [00:08:47] Speaker B: Yep. [00:08:48] Speaker C: Okay. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Yep. Fed cow slaughter. So think coming out of the feedlots, your steers, your heifers, those animals that were bought solely to feed them out and put them into beef production. So fed cattle slaughter was down 9% year over year in June, and then cow and bull slaughter was down 10%. So the cattle herd is Lower. The amount of cattle that is being slaughtered from that herd is lower. Feed and fuel prices are up 25% since 2023. [00:09:29] Speaker C: Wow. Okay. [00:09:32] Speaker B: So the cost of making them is higher. The number that there are is lower. The number that are being slaughtered is lower. We've had drought in the southern plains that has. [00:09:47] Speaker C: Where they grow a lot of cows. [00:09:48] Speaker B: Typically a lot of cows. They has reduced pasture availability by 30%. [00:09:56] Speaker C: Wow. Okay. [00:09:57] Speaker B: And in May, one of the things that we talked about during a podcast was the border for cattle imports with Mexico was closed due to the New World Screwworm issue. And that's right. At 1.2 million head of cattle that normally come across annually. They closed the border in May and the border remains closed. So that's about 5% of the total supply for the United States has been closed. [00:10:31] Speaker C: Quick review. If you're not sure what the New World screwworm is, it is a larva that comes from a fly, but it is flesh eating and it will kill cattle, period. [00:10:43] Speaker B: That's right. Normally fly larvae feed on dead and decaying material. This particular flies larvae needs an open wound and then off it goes. So cows birthing new calves that have, that aren't dry yet any, you know, scratch from a barbed wire fence, like anything that makes an open wound makes cattle vulnerable to this larvae and it is fatal. It kills them. And it kills them rather quickly, like within a week or so. Right. [00:11:22] Speaker C: So it's good that we close the border so that we can stop that from getting up into our herds and decimating and making it even worse. [00:11:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:33] Speaker C: So they had to do that. So that. And they're, they have, they're working on ways of introducing male flies that can't reproduce. And then they'll. It'll. It will help it. We went through this in the late 1900s. What, 1970s? [00:11:52] Speaker B: Yeah. We eradicated it once already. [00:11:54] Speaker C: Right. So they can do it again. It's controllable, but it takes time. [00:12:02] Speaker B: Another issue with the system is that over 80% of beef in this country is produced by four companies. [00:12:14] Speaker C: Yes. So you have. Well, when you say produced, you're talking about the beef packers. Right. So he's saying the beef packers. 80% of the beef is slaughtered and packed by four different companies, two of which JBS and National are both foreign owned companies. They are Brazilian owned companies. Tyson and national are both. I mean, I'm sorry, Tyson and Cargill are both American owned. [00:12:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And why does that matter? Well, this past week, October 6th, a judge signed a settlement agreement that Cargill and Tyson where they from Cargill and Tyson where they settled an $87.5 million price fixing case against them. [00:13:12] Speaker C: It was an antitrust case that said they're, they're fixed, they're colluding and fixing prices. [00:13:21] Speaker B: And the case was from the time period 2014 to 2019. That's been litigating. Litigating for six years. And finally the two companies just signed a settlement to the tune of $87 million. [00:13:40] Speaker C: So you have near complete consolidation of our beef industry into four companies. And they are, they are the people who decide what the dad gum price is even going to be. [00:13:55] Speaker B: That's right, Yep. Absolutely. And by signing a settlement, they're basically saying there is at least not enough evidence that they are not fixing prices. Right. Or said the other way. There is enough evidence that they are fixing prices that they would rather settle. Wow. [00:14:30] Speaker C: I thought we have antitrust laws to keep this kind of stuff from happening. [00:14:33] Speaker B: It was the Stockyards act that broke up the eighth companies that were controlling somewhere around 60% of the market in the early 1900s that, you know, that led to the Stockyards act, which broke them up. [00:14:49] Speaker C: So we need to break them up again and deconsolidate our beef industry. [00:14:54] Speaker B: You're getting ahead of me all the way to segment five where we talk about the solutions. [00:15:00] Speaker C: Well, let me back up. [00:15:05] Speaker B: Well, yeah, so you know, if the food supply is, is depending on things like imports from Mexico. [00:15:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:16] Speaker B: If that's the reason, one of the reasons, at least we're into this issue. How does increasing imports really offer a long term solution? It doesn't. [00:15:32] Speaker C: In our view. It doesn't. I'm not against imports as, as far as economies go and grow. Yeah, I'm fine with that. But it's about the, the, like you just said, a solution to a problem which is our cattle industry, our beef industry. [00:15:54] Speaker B: And this isn't one of those things where we have a shortage. Right. Like, it's not like we have too little land or too few ranchers. [00:16:02] Speaker C: Yeah, we've got enough of both of those. [00:16:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:04] Speaker C: Like America can feed Americans. [00:16:08] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. This isn't one. Like there's some natural resource that only is mined in Antarctica or something, you know, like. [00:16:18] Speaker C: Right. [00:16:18] Speaker B: This isn't that. This is cows. [00:16:20] Speaker C: So here's another question, and I don't know if you have the answer to it. How much beef, how much American beef do we export? [00:16:30] Speaker B: I don't know the numbers, but we do know. [00:16:33] Speaker C: I was going to ask that. [00:16:34] Speaker B: No, I didn't. We do export beef. It's in the millions of pounds. I just don't, I don't remember. We do. That's a good question. [00:16:41] Speaker C: Right? We do export beef. [00:16:43] Speaker B: Yeah, we do. [00:16:45] Speaker C: Okay. [00:16:46] Speaker B: Yeah. When I was on the staff in Korea, one of the, I was on the joint staff, the US Forces Korea staff, and I was in the policy shop. One of the major issues when I first got there, into that shop, I went to the embassy country team meetings and US Imports of beef to South Korea was a huge issue because it was like $1.3 billion to US farmers worth of beef that the US was exporting, South Korea was importing. And at that time there was a scare with mad cow disease. So South Korea had turned off their import of US Beef. And the President of South Korea. Right, right. As I showed up, changed that, reversed that decision and started importing US Beef, you know, upon pressure from the United States government. And he, he had ended up having to fire his entire cabinet and almost lost his presidency over that decision to re import US Beef. So it is a, I mean I. [00:18:05] Speaker C: Remember that going on. I remember the whole beef thing. [00:18:11] Speaker B: It's. [00:18:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I didn't remember all the details. I just remembered it was a big deal. [00:18:16] Speaker B: Yeah. One man set himself on fire. [00:18:18] Speaker C: Oh gosh, I remember. [00:18:20] Speaker B: And one of the city gates in Seoul over the fact that the fear that South Korea would be importing mad cow disease in the US Beef. [00:18:33] Speaker C: So anyway, point being, it's a big deal. [00:18:38] Speaker B: Yeah, beef export for this country is a big deal. So the answer is, I know that we do export beef. I don't remember the exact numbers. So moving on to segment three, the market motion. What has happened in the markets? So when we first started talking about this, and we're not expecting you to understand the market, the cattle cash market. [00:19:04] Speaker C: We don't even understand 100%. It is a, a really smoke and. [00:19:09] Speaker B: Mirrors complex system and there is a lot of smoke in it and mirrors in it and it stays complex and smoky for reasons decisions can be made and things can move that sort of stay hidden. So we'll talk about the sort of futures numbers that I mentioned before. So cattle feeder futures were trading about $380 per hundredweight in mid October. [00:19:40] Speaker C: So So for every, for every hundred pounds that the live animal weighs, it is three is worth $380 at that rate. Right. [00:19:52] Speaker B: So said differently, it's $3.80 per pound. But that's not how they talk about it. [00:19:57] Speaker C: Right. [00:19:58] Speaker B: So they, they talk about it as 380 per 100 weight. The day that President Trump, you know, the trading after President Trump said that it dropped to 370. So it was a, wait a minute, are things turning around? Kind of, you know, look, and this. [00:20:18] Speaker C: Is, these are like you, you start when you started in the, the first segment, you said these are contracts. These are 50,000 pound contracts. That is what is moving the numbers and what the packers are willing to pay for those, for that beef in the future. What are we going to have to pay? So they're, they're signing deals on future beef at a certain price. They're locking in their price as quick, as quickly as they can, especially when he says stuff like this. And so it took a dip. They're willing to pay less. [00:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:56] Speaker C: Is what it's saying. The packers are saying, no, we'll give you 370 now, not 380. Because we have a feeling that more beef is about to come into the market. Something is about, something is about to happen. [00:21:07] Speaker B: It's almost like the stock market where there's a whole lot of emotions involved in this. And you know, fear in the market can cause big changes. Right. So this was a, something might be happening. [00:21:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:20] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:21] Speaker C: But so it took a, so it took a dip. [00:21:23] Speaker B: It did, it took, it took a dip. But at even $370, which was the bottom of the dip, that's still somewhere around 50% higher than it was this time last year. [00:21:45] Speaker C: Yes, it's still at record highs. It's not like the bottom has, there were some articles that says, you know, the, the bottom fell or something like it fell out or like it took a nosedive or something. And there are constant fluctuations in that market based on what's happening. But so a $10, almost $10 fluctuation isn't going to, is it, is that going to make a big deal on with the end of the hamburger? [00:22:15] Speaker B: If you look at it from a percentage perspective, that was 2.6%. So no. Right. It's not going to make a big deal and it's not going to change the, like immediately change the price of your hamburger. Let's look at it again. Let's look at it, at it in a different market. Let's say that gas was $3.80 a gallon and you have to decide am I going to take that trip over the holidays to visit the grandchildren or the children or the grandparents, wherever you happen to be in life. And the pricing, gas fluctuated downward to $3 and 70 cents. Yeah, it's better. [00:23:11] Speaker C: Right, but is that going still expensive? [00:23:13] Speaker B: It's still expensive. That's still $3.70 a gallon gasoline. [00:23:18] Speaker C: Right. If you weren't going to go, you wouldn't probably be now, like, well, now I can go because it's so much. [00:23:24] Speaker B: Cheaper because it's two and a half percent. [00:23:26] Speaker C: But here's to take your analogy a little bit further. Right now, oil prices are some. At like, big oil prices by the barrel is lower than it's been in a long time. [00:23:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Since COVID era, I think. [00:23:40] Speaker C: And our, our fuel prices are still high. How long is it going to take for those low barrel prices to hit the pumps? [00:23:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:49] Speaker C: So it's still works in sort of the same manner. [00:23:51] Speaker B: The same manner. That's right. So while, you know, if you're, if you're looking at it like from the headline perspective. [00:23:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:58] Speaker B: Beef futures plummet. [00:24:01] Speaker C: Well, not really. [00:24:04] Speaker B: And even if they did go down, it was two and a half percent. [00:24:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Like, it wasn't like they, the bottom fell out. And some of the, some of the headlines that you're seeing make it out to be like this big thing. And, and right before we sat down to record this, it had recovered almost 2 of the $10 that it dropped. So today the, the graph, you know, Friday it was going like this. Today it's going back up at about the same angle. [00:24:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, futures are based on expectations. [00:24:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:40] Speaker C: And they don't reflect what's happening at the checkout counter. [00:24:43] Speaker B: No. [00:24:44] Speaker C: No matter what. [00:24:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:46] Speaker C: So we're still, as consumers, we just still need to be. If we've seen that headline, we need to be a little aware that while it may, something may have happened, it's really not going to have any bearing on my grocery bill. [00:25:01] Speaker B: It's the same thing. Like, you see the headline, oil prices lower than they've been in five years. [00:25:07] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:25:08] Speaker B: You know, going to town the other day, I look at Casey's, our local gas station, and I'm like, The diesel's still $3.19 a gallon. Like. [00:25:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:18] Speaker B: Nothing's changed. Although the headlines are saying because. [00:25:23] Speaker C: Well, because the fuel that's in that. [00:25:26] Speaker B: It fluctuates with every. [00:25:27] Speaker C: In that tank. [00:25:28] Speaker B: It fluctuates daily. That's the only way that they can keep up with price fluctuations. [00:25:33] Speaker C: Right. [00:25:34] Speaker B: You know, so they, they raise and lower prices. Everybody. I mean, you see that, that gas prices raise and lower daily based on what's going on in the market. So you see a headline like, oil's the lowest it's been in five years, six years. You're like, oh, man, good. I think I'M going to stop and buy diesel. And it's like, well, not yet, not. [00:25:54] Speaker C: Yet, not yet, not yet. [00:25:56] Speaker B: When you got a 50 gallon tank, it matters 10 cents a gallon. [00:26:00] Speaker C: Yes, it does. We'll drive to the nearest, wherever we can get it cheaper. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:06] Speaker C: Okay, so segment 4, Argentina and importing their beef as a, as a solution or a band aid. [00:26:19] Speaker B: So Argentina is a top five beef exporter as far as the world stage goes. [00:26:26] Speaker C: They make, that's a lot of beef. [00:26:27] Speaker B: They make the beef. [00:26:28] Speaker C: Okay. [00:26:29] Speaker B: They do. It's about somewhere around 750,000 metric tons annually that are exported. [00:26:36] Speaker C: Okay. [00:26:37] Speaker B: From 2022 to 2024, we, the United States imported less than 1% of our beef from Argentina. Okay. So if it were a, if this import plan were a big shift, it would be an actual big shift. Right. They're not already a large percentage of the beef that we exported. Like I mentioned with Mexico, they were around 5%. Is what has been coming across the Mexican border where with Argentina, although we do import from them, it's, it's less than 1%. Is our, our historical average. Some, some issues with Argentine beef is that a couple of times over the past, let's say decade, there have been issues with the quality, there have been some hoof and mouth issues happening. And a lot of the beef coming from there is marketed and sold as grass fed. But the, the traceability of that is not always as, say, solid as what you might want. [00:27:53] Speaker C: Okay, what are they, is he planning on? Is this the getting like box beef already cut or these cows are going to be shipped to our packers and then and into our system? So hoof and mouth, if it's, if they're coming live, that would be a big deal, right? [00:28:14] Speaker B: I don't know and I don't what their plan is. The president has detailed a plan. It has been. Beef prices are too high and I'm going to fix it. And then the next statement was, well, maybe we'll just import it from Argentina. [00:28:28] Speaker C: Because I know the Mexican and Brazilian beef does come across live into our, into our beef system, into our cattle system. Historically it has. And I mean other ways too. I know, but I was just wondering if they were going to, if his plan was to. If they. [00:28:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:48] Speaker C: And maybe our listeners know. Do they? [00:28:51] Speaker B: I believe the majority of the imports from places far away like Argentina and Brazil, I believe the majority of those imports come in as box beef. And that's one of the issues, again, especially with the grass fed market is it comes in as scraps and trimmings. That are, you know, from multiple different animals. The scraps are just piled into these huge containers. [00:29:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:19] Speaker B: And then it comes across to the United States where it's then ground into, you know, grass fed ground beef. [00:29:26] Speaker C: Right. Okay. [00:29:27] Speaker B: And one of the reasons why you can find in the, the big box stores like Walmart, you can find grass fed ground beef for really not much more than your regular ground beef. And it's like, how is that. Because it takes longer for these animals to grow. [00:29:47] Speaker C: It should be real, it should be. [00:29:49] Speaker B: Expensive, it should be more expensive, but yet it's not like, it's not as much as you would think. And so there's this. Well why? Well, it's, it's because it's coming from other countries and it's typically trimmings and scraps and the, the grass fed traceability isn't always there. [00:30:08] Speaker C: Okay, so what are some of their other issues? The, or are there any. Was that kind of COVID the issues? [00:30:21] Speaker B: The issues. While it may lower the price potentially at, at the, at the store to the consumer, that, that's a possibility. It does nothing. Importing Argentine beef does nothing for again, fixing the problem. It doesn't do anything for the US Beef producer. Right. There's, there's nothing about bringing in, you know, cheap scrap beef that can be ground into hamburger. There's nothing about that that helps solve the problem. It's the aspirin. Yeah. Here you go. Here's an aspirin. Here's some, here's some ground beef to throw into the, the system, the market. And it will temporarily or as long as we're willing to import that it will say okay here, you know, it brings it down some percent, but it's not, it's still not a fix to the system in my opinion. [00:31:23] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:24] Speaker B: So again, America has the land, we have the farmers and ranchers. We need to fix the problem. Right. We, we have the ability to fix the problem. We have the, the potential is there. [00:31:42] Speaker C: So you mentioned Argentina. We've talked about that. And getting increasing our imports from them. Another country that we, he potentially might do some different types of trading and tariffs with is Brazil. And Brazil actually owns 2 of our packing houses. So if we start getting even more beef from Brazil. So Brazil. [00:32:09] Speaker B: So this is our sidebar discussion that I teased at the beginning. The sidebar is, well, what about Brazil? Right now we've got a little over a 26% as of when I checked. Who knows what it will be percent tariff on beef coming into the United States from Brazil. So that is a Lever that he could potentially you know, use to adjust the, the, the prices of beef also would be. He could start talking about reducing tariffs from the import of Brazilian beef. So Brazil is the number one global exporter of beef. So they export more beef than anyone in the world. [00:33:03] Speaker C: Wow. Well, they do have a lot of land down there. Yeah, they do. Well, they have a very large bit of it as the Amazon rainforest. I believe that they're even kind of deforesting so they can grow more beef. So that they can grow more cows. [00:33:25] Speaker B: Yep. [00:33:27] Speaker C: Which I completely, I completely disagree with. [00:33:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So again, this is a foreign solution to a domestic problem. Right, Right. This is, we have a problem. So maybe somewhere else in the world can solve it. [00:33:42] Speaker C: Okay. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Gosh. [00:33:43] Speaker C: It just seems like the people that are in Washington, honestly, they don't, it feels like they don't want to fix the actual problem. It seems like they want to use alternative sources as the solution, period. Like that's the solution. [00:34:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think what he is looking at with importing beef is a quick fix. It is like the aspirin. It is. I have a headache and now my head doesn't hurt as bad. [00:34:21] Speaker C: So if he's going to, to do that, then address the American cattleman and say this is temporary. It's for only for X amount of time. This is just, this is a short term solution to give the American consumer some amount of relief, some amount of relief while we all fix our problem. And let's get to what we think some of our just ideas again of some of the potential ideas for solutions just to throw out there. All right. What we think that these are our opinions and probably a lot of them are. Could be controversial. [00:35:07] Speaker B: Okay. So segment five solutions and we'll list them in our ranked order. So the number one thing that we think that could should be done to alleviate beef prices inside this country with things that we can do is break up the big four meat packers. [00:35:28] Speaker C: Would you have 80% of your product going through four, four companies? There is, there is no way for the American consumer to even consider getting, getting a fair deal. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Correct. [00:35:46] Speaker C: There's just no way. We have to bust them up. [00:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And we can do that. Use the Stockyards Act. Yeah, that's, that's what it was for. And modernize the act. If you have to, like, if you have to do something else, like, fine, like if it's not a. I can just push the button and make it happen. Okay. But make it happen. [00:36:07] Speaker C: We need more regional packers, more regional abattoirs, slaughterhouses. People who also are processing meat within their area. And it can be a big area, that's fine. We just need more of them so that there is more competition within the market. Because when you only have four people who are saying, hey, what are you going to charge? What are you, what are you buying out? What are you buying at? And we know they're doing that. They have, they have traced emails of collusion for price fixing, and that's what keeps their prices the way where they are. And so if we could bust that up and get these things regional and create competition within the system, we as the consumers might see a fairer deal. [00:36:57] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. The reason why we have anti monopoly laws. [00:37:04] Speaker C: But it just seems like our country ignores those across all the sectors now. Well, they ignore. I mean, and this is one of them. This is, this is the prime example of one of them. But our country seems to ignore those because they allow corporations to buy and consume, literally chomp, chomp, chomp, other corporations so much these days that they become behemoths and in all of the sectors. And I, I don't, I don't understand when it's not legal, why it's. Why it's happening. [00:37:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:44] Speaker C: Grr. [00:37:47] Speaker B: So another idea that we came up with was actually Shelley's idea. Why don't we, why don't we incentivize farmers and ranchers to keep their heifers? Right now the market is incentivizing selling heifers. And the heifers are the future of your herd. That is so America's herd. Beef herd futures have been being sold because the prices are so high. [00:38:17] Speaker C: But here's the thing. It's expensive. It's expensive to keep a heifer. Why? Because those aren't typically the animals that we process in this country for the beef. It's because they grow slower. And so you've got this female calf that you're going to have to hold and feed and baby and do all the things for the next 18 months till she can breed and have a baby. And it's so, so cattlemen, if they, if it's going to cost them more than what they could make, they won't keep them. They're going to ditch them every single time and then they will go off and, you know, somebody will grow them out and, and we'll eat them. But the, the thing is, if it, if it's costing more than what they can make, then. [00:39:14] Speaker B: If. [00:39:14] Speaker C: Why can't we, why can't we subsidize that? I'm not for Subsidies. But our government does subsidize things. We subsidize corn and soy and all of the cereals that you can imagine. Sugar, all. There's so many subsidies. But the cattle industry, outside of what they're feeding their cows, don't receive the government help like that. And it's just one of those. Well, maybe for a stopgap measure, it would have to be temporary. And oftentimes things that happen like this become permanent. But if. If I got. If I Knew, hey, here's $2,000 per heifer that you keep to help you offset the cost of raising her out and getting those calves on the ground. Hmm. I might keep her. [00:40:05] Speaker B: And it wouldn't have to be direct subsidies. It could be you get a tax break for every heifer that you retain. [00:40:12] Speaker C: Okay. [00:40:13] Speaker B: You know, it could be you get a lower percentage on a feed loan if you have retained heifers in your herd. Right. Like, there are. There are other ideas. It doesn't have to just be direct cash. Direct cash checks written, you know, immediately add to the deficit. It could be, you know, some other other options, but still make it, you know, enticing for a farmer or rancher to hold on to that heifer so that in a couple of years down the road, our beef herd is not diminishing, it's actually increasing. [00:40:57] Speaker C: I like it. I like it a lot. [00:41:00] Speaker B: Yeah. So a third potential solution would be, you know, although, again, you mentioned we don't love subsidies, but you could subsidize US Beef at whatever place in the entire chain that it makes sense to inject those subsidies. Yeah. [00:41:24] Speaker C: We don't like it, but whenever you've got a problem, throwing money at it is often part of the solution. [00:41:33] Speaker B: Yeah. At the. At the farmer level, it could be you are subsidized for feed purchase or you are subsidized for drought relief. [00:41:45] Speaker C: So. Well, speaking of relief, $20 billion. Also, Trump just said to Argentina, as aid to Argentina, we're going to inject $20 billion into their system outside of buying the beef or outside of. Yeah. Importing their beef. What about $20 billion to the cattle ranchers in this country to bolster our own production of our own beef. [00:42:15] Speaker B: And you could tie that to heifers, like, specifically so that the end result is an increase in your national beef herd. Right. Like, it doesn't have to just be. Well, you own a cow, so you get X number of dollars. [00:42:30] Speaker C: No. [00:42:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:31] Speaker C: Actual heifer retention. [00:42:32] Speaker B: Right. And then what. What that helps us do then is with the heifer retention now you're getting at at least part of what's causing the migraine. [00:42:46] Speaker C: Right. [00:42:47] Speaker B: Like your own supply is low. Yes, it is. So if you want to fix that, bringing in somebody else's stuff doesn't fix the fact that your supply is low. Right. It's like some of these answers, at least our potential solutions would look at the underlying problem. At least one of them. The beef herd is too small. So let's grow it. Let's actually do something about the problem. [00:43:21] Speaker C: Is there any. Are there any subsidies? Okay, so cows have to eat grass that we need a lot of land, AKA also hay, things that humans don't eat. But I don't know of hay farmers, which there are many through the Midwest getting any like, crop help with their. [00:43:45] Speaker B: Hay, which there is some there, you know, from a crop insurance perspective, if your crop is a, A grass. [00:43:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, if there's a drought, they will help you, but I'm talking about assistance in getting that grown for the cow. [00:44:04] Speaker B: Well, it's not. [00:44:05] Speaker C: I know they're feeding them corn and all the things like that, and that's also up to dice. But how do, how are we helping the hay farmers? [00:44:12] Speaker B: There's not. For the grass like the other commodities that are, you know, traditionally what you would consider subsidized, there's not like a minimum price per pound of alfalfa or fescue or brome or whatever the, the hay is that you're. That you're growing. It's not like there's a minimum price per pound. And if you don't get to that minimum price, the government then subsidizes to make sure that, you know, the hay farmer is able to make a living. I have not heard. [00:44:47] Speaker C: I haven't either. If it exists, please let us know in the comments. [00:44:52] Speaker B: I haven't heard of that. [00:44:53] Speaker C: Look, a lot of this is just us bouncing ideas off of each other, trying to think of what. What are some of the things that, as producers, what are some of the challenges that we face as consumers? How can we, what can we do about the, the, the prices of our, of our groceries? So, you know, while they, some of them may seem like crazy ideas, we all just have to think and hold our legislators and our government accountable for what they're doing with our food system. [00:45:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And this, this particular solution is one that helps the United States fix the United States. You know, let's deal with the problem here. Not let's set up a system that ensures we rely on some foreign government forever. [00:45:47] Speaker C: Yeah, we see where that has gotten Us. Whenever you are so dependent on another nation for something that you absolutely need like our antibiotics and China and when you become dependent on another nation for things that you must have, you have put yourself in a very vulnerable position. And our food supply at jeopardy is a very, very vulnerable position that we are, we can fix it. We have, we have ranchers and cowboys that love nothing more to do in this world than ranch and cowboy. Right. You know, you like. I, I can assure you if given the right circumstances, all they want to do is work more cows and have more cows and do that. [00:46:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So some other potential solutions. We won't spend as much time on them. Is one you talked about more local regional processors that are able to handle the beef locally instead of shipping them across the nation. And one thing that could ease that as well is we've talked about many times like the prime act where you know, maybe you could do more with those local processors. Can you, you know, your custom processor. Let's be able to sell that beef instead of just I can process my cow for me with a custom processor that is local and potentially cheaper. Maybe I can actually then sell that beef or what if I could sell it even across state lines. So a little bit of relaxing some rules and regulations on the, the small processor would be a potential solution here. There are, you know, maybe some mandatory price reporting from the, the big packers. [00:47:58] Speaker C: A little bit transparency. [00:48:00] Speaker B: Transparency from the big folks. [00:48:03] Speaker C: Right. [00:48:03] Speaker B: Maybe a. Here's, here's what we're, I don't know, selling. [00:48:09] Speaker C: I can't believe we're talking about subsidies and more regulation, you know, because we are both like anti subsidy and as few regulations as possible when, when the. [00:48:25] Speaker B: Situation has gotten to the point where the entire market is controlled by four different companies like the, the, the individual is, dare I say, powerless to make any changes there. So when it gets to that point, I think you have to rely on big things to intervene. And really the only thing big enough to intervene would be the government. [00:48:57] Speaker C: Yeah, you're right. And, and that's why we say it though. We don't like it, but we're here. [00:49:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So there are some bad options out there. To me, reliance on Venezuela is a bad option. We've already, I'm sorry, Argentina, we're not. [00:49:16] Speaker C: Going to rely on Venezuela for much. Not right now. [00:49:19] Speaker B: Maybe oil. Right. But we're getting mad at them. So yeah. To rely on Argentina I think is a bad option. What else you could say we're going to have mandatory import quotas. Like we're going to say 25 of our beef has to be imported and bring your beef, everybody. [00:49:41] Speaker C: Oh, no, that's, that's a terrible idea. [00:49:43] Speaker B: But it's an idea, right? Like, yeah, there are there. [00:49:46] Speaker C: It would definitely, it would definitely move the levers as a lever to move and that would definitely move markets. [00:49:52] Speaker B: Another, in our opinion, bad idea would be a campaign to eat less beef. [00:49:58] Speaker C: Bad, bad idea. Actually, I think that's the most horrible. [00:50:03] Speaker B: Idea because not, not only are we beef producers on a very, very teeny, tiny scale, we believe that the health benefits of eating beef are enormous. And so the idea of reducing the amount of beef, it will take an actual real health toll on the nation. [00:50:28] Speaker C: You could really do an entire podcast on the fact that this expensive beef and the fact that we have a beef shortage is actually not just a, like, beef crisis, but that it could steer over into a health crisis because people are choosing not to eat it because it is so expensive and their bodies really need it. Like, you could literally do an entire podcast just on the fact that the, the fact that people can't buy it is going to make their health worse. [00:50:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And then the, the last what we think bad idea that we'll discuss at least. I'm sure there are lots more bad ideas. But the last bad idea is alternative proteins. So we can use lab grown whatever. We can use, you know, ground up bugs. There are other ways to get protein other than beef. Let's just ignore the whole problem and focus a solution on some alternative. [00:51:23] Speaker C: And we, we know that there's a lot of talk out there about and a lot of attacks out there on beef, on cows, on the beef industry, on ranchers across the board, and we wholly, 1000% support growing our beef industry, growing our herd, eating more beef. So those are, That's a terrible idea. [00:51:48] Speaker B: Yeah, terrible. All right, so I'm not eating bugs. It's got to get real bad. [00:51:57] Speaker C: Not on purpose. [00:51:58] Speaker B: It's got to get real bad. In survival training, that's one of the. [00:52:05] Speaker C: Things we had to, oh my gosh, eat a worm. [00:52:09] Speaker B: To eat a worm, Eat a bug. [00:52:10] Speaker C: Eat a cricket or what, A grasshopper. [00:52:13] Speaker B: So if you know in a survival situation and bugs are what you can find, then fine, eat a bug. But we're not, we're not there. And I, I hope to never get to that. [00:52:22] Speaker C: Can I tell a quick story? Okay, so he comes back from survival training and he was telling the kids who were five and three or two at the time, but it was really telling Rebecca a little bit of the stories about him being out and camping in the woods in a survival situation. And one of the things he told her was that he had to, in front of the instructor, like, he had to eat a worm. And she thought that was gross. But we were living in the UK at the time, which has amazing soil and they have lots of worms in their dirt. She goes out to the yard, she finds a worm, and she ate it to be like, dad, like, look, me too. It was funny. It was cute. You know, what the kids will do. But she did. She had a worm. [00:53:11] Speaker B: They actually have a lot of dirt inside them. [00:53:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:15] Speaker B: Pretty crunchy, grainy. [00:53:19] Speaker C: So we don't want to get there. No, I'd rather eat ground beef. [00:53:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So the last segment, segment six, we'll talk about what. What this means for us personally, what we're doing here on our small farm and potentially for you as producers and consumers out there. Some thoughts and decisions you might want to make. So we had been considering potentially downsizing our herd. And because we have a lot of heifers, like, we can't support the number of grown female animals that we have as far as, like, the number of calf, Heifer calves that we have growing up. So it's a. At some point, we're either going to have to process them or sell them. We just have to. And as this whole fluctuation thing hit for us, it went from I think we need to. To ditch some of these heifers to I think we need to hang on to our efforts still and figure out what's going on with the entire system. Like, the last thing for us, at least, you know, whatever everybody else is doing, you may want to be doing the other thing until, you know, things sort of settle down or calm down. So I think for us, at least from a market perspective, we're. We're not planning on taking heifers to the market anytime soon. [00:54:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Like, literally the other week, we're talking about downsizing, and now we're saying, well, maybe. Maybe not just yet or not into the larger system. You know, there are. There are ways that we could downsize that would be still beneficial to America, Feeding America. There are. If we can find a local producer near here that is looking for some replacement heifers, that we could sell them directly to them. And we know that they're going to, you know, for the most part, you know, they're not held to some, you know, contract or something, but, you know, their intention is to get some young heifers, raise them up, add them to their herd, and if we could find someone like that to where we could offload them off of our property, but keep them in the national system rather than just sending them to a livestock market to where you have no idea where they're going to go in the system would be a way that we could thoughtfully downsize our herd but still have an Amer feed America first mentality. [00:55:57] Speaker B: I'd heard that there may even be some homesteaders and small farmers at church that are looking for some heifers. So maybe someplace that we can. [00:56:05] Speaker C: Hey, if you're in the Ozarks and you're looking for a couple of heifers, let us know in the comments or you know, you can always contact us. But we are, we are considering downsizing but not to the detriment of the food supply. [00:56:21] Speaker B: And the only reason, it's not that we're, it's just our land doesn't support the growth the herd. [00:56:30] Speaker C: We have to feed more purchased product. Hey, we have to feed more hay. If we keep them, maybe it's worth it, maybe it's not. But right now we're just going to pause and think about it, make some decisions on where we want these ladies to be. [00:56:50] Speaker B: So for the consumer, some takeaways here, like some thoughts on how can you support fixing the actual problem. Like what can you do? Obviously pick up the phone literally and call your representatives. Support things like the prime act is huge. Ask them why there are four companies that control 80% of the beef in this country. Ask them if, if really importing beef from a foreign nation is going to help solve our national beef problem. Right, like some, some pointed questions that would allow them to know where you're coming from. I think that is definitely helpful on a, on a personal level. Support your local farmer. You know the, that that farmer that is trying to make it work on the small scale to provide you with something that is, that is quality and local. I, I think here's one thing. [00:57:48] Speaker C: It might be more expensive if you can buy $8 pound ground beef at Walmart and you can buy $10 ground, $10 per pound ground beef with your local farmer. All of the dollars stay in one little bitty short chain. And with the local, with the local farmer. The reason is because you haven't trucked it somewhere, you haven't had to pay massive amounts of tariffs or whatever has come onto that. You're staying out of the big four. You know where that meat came from, you know that it was healthy, or at least it should have been. But the point is that all of the dollars. While it might be a little bit more expensive because that farmer is trying to make a living, it's all right there. And it's not a farmer getting 8 cents of the food dollar. And you know exactly where that stuff is coming from. [00:58:45] Speaker B: Another thing you could do is if you don't have a local farmer is wherever you are buying your beef, ask where it's coming from and let that sales person know that the, the origin is important to you. [00:59:02] Speaker C: Because right now you, you, they imports don't have to have anything on them. But before about a year ago when it changed anyone, all beef that came in, if it was packaged in the United States, it could say product of the usa. It can't say that any more. [00:59:23] Speaker B: The product of the USA label is completely optional. It is voluntary. There is no country of origin labeling required. [00:59:32] Speaker C: But so could they say it was a product of the USA and just be just dirt bags? If it came in from Brazil, can it still say product of the USA if it's optional or imports? Can't say that anymore. [00:59:48] Speaker B: If they come in as live animals and they spend some time here, they can. It has to be traced. USA from birth, growth, processing. [01:00:00] Speaker C: Okay. [01:00:01] Speaker B: Packed like that whole thing has to be traced now to be, to have. [01:00:06] Speaker C: That label raised and harvested here in America to say product supposed to be okay. [01:00:13] Speaker B: But I think that, I think that there may be like if you're talking the dirtbag, there may be some issues with importing live animals that spend some time here that then get sort of washed into the system. The system. [01:00:29] Speaker C: Point being you don't know where your mates come from. [01:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, remember that every dollar you spend is a vote for the food system that you want. So if you want a local, resilient, sustainable food system, then vote for that with your dollar. If you're okay with the imported monopolized system, then vote for that with your dollar. Right, right. [01:00:56] Speaker C: What about folks who are just saying I just can't, you know, I just can't afford that. You know, financially oftentimes like if they're, if they're on a SNAP program, oftentimes even small, small grocery stores, our health, health food store here accepts snap. So you know, maybe there are some alternatives. And you know, a pound of ground beef goes, can go a really long ways. And so I, I know that there are budget restrictions and a lot of folks especially right now in the country are kind of screaming about inflation, but maybe we just make trade offs instead of a pound instead of, you know, two coffees at Starbucks, we buy a pound of ground beef instead. And so there, there are some ways that we can handle it within the budget and we are sensitive and recognize the fact that groceries are just freaking expensive. [01:01:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And we're not saying that the price of beef should continue to go up. No, that's not what we're saying. No, What I'm saying is I don't think that relying on foreign imports as the solution to that is a viable solution. I think that it is a band aid fix. It is an aspirin for a migraine. It is not. Why do you have the migraine? It is simply a short term band aid fix. That is not getting to the solution that we actually need to fix the overall beef problem that we have in our nation. Right, agree. [01:02:36] Speaker C: That was a lot. That was a lot to cover. It's a lot because it's a massive problem and we need real solutions. And like he said, call your. Call your representatives, state and federal, you know, national or whatever your federal representatives are, your congressman when they decide to go back to work. [01:03:09] Speaker B: Well, they're not in D.C. but they're home, are they? [01:03:12] Speaker C: Well, give. Now is the time then to call them and let them know what you think about your, your beef industry. [01:03:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:22] Speaker C: Because at the end of the day, it is ours. This is our country. It's our food supply. It doesn't belong to 435 people and four companies. It belongs to the United States citizens. And as citizens of this country, it is our duty to hold them accountable. [01:03:41] Speaker B: That's right. [01:03:41] Speaker C: Whether we mostly agree with them or most mostly disagree with them, we hold them accountable. [01:03:47] Speaker B: That's right. And in this case, we can feed ourselves if we choose to. Importing the fix is the wrong answer. [01:03:55] Speaker C: Absolutely. Thank you for hanging out with us again today. And until next time. Bye, y'. All. [01:04:02] Speaker B: Bye.