Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Does the ketogenic lifestyle come with some bonus cheat days?
I don't know that they should.
Are they just simple indulgences, or are you sabotaging your own health? That's what we're going to cover today.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Welcome to the Duster Mud podcast. This is episode 66. My name is Rich.
[00:00:18] Speaker A: And I'm Shelley.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: In 2019, we started a ketogenic journey. We dove headfirst into this lifestyle. The first thing we did was, was we binged information. We spent weekends, evenings, waking hours, any that we could find, just reading and researching and trying to figure out this new crazy, for us, at least, way of eating. And over the past five plus years, we've really stuck to this ketogenic lifestyle. And one of the things that comes up often and recently came up after one of our podcasts was cheat days.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: Do you cheat? When do you cheat? How often do you cheat? Well, don't y'all just sometimes have, like, just one cookie?
No, we don't. We choose not to cheat.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Today, we want to talk about why and what we believe to be the truth about cheat days.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: So, for really quick review, or for those who just don't might not know yet, the ketogenic diet is a way of eating that. You eat a high fat, moderate protein, low to no carbohydrate diet. So you're going to have 70% of your diet as fat, and then 20% to 25% is going to be protein. And then the remainder, you're going to have a few carbs and the vegetables that you eat. Now, that being said, high fat diet. And when we use the word diet, oftentimes we're very much thinking of something like calories in, calories out. A restrictive diet that says limit your calories, eat under this many points, just don't eat so much. That's a typical diet that the standard American is used to. But with a ketogenic diet, really what we're doing is we're flipping it on its head and we're going to just tell our body to do something completely different.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Your body can use glucose as fuel, which is your standard american diet. Carbs are converted into glucose, and your body uses that for fuel. Your body also can use ketones for fuel. Not if there's glucose available, though. So the ketogenic diet, you are restricting the carbohydrates to the point that you're kicking your body into using a different kind of fuel called ketones. And your liver will produce ketones by burning fat. And so that's why the high fat diet leads to ketosis, which is the state of using ketones as your energy source.
The standard american diet and all of the diets, weight loss programs that go along with the standard american diet are typically rooted in calories in, calories out. A calorie is a calorie. You have to exercise more than what you eat in order to lose weight. And so that calories in, calories out mentality leads to the concept of a cheat day, where it just doesn't really matter. It just means that on that day, you're taking in more calories than you were the day before.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: So maybe you could go for a walk or you could go for a run, or you could maybe burn it off. You could do something to mitigate your, quote, cheat. Although I disagree with that entire model completely, that is the typical way that the American has been indoctrinated to think about our nutrition and health, but that that model just doesn't work. And cheating on, when you're on a keto diet, when you cheat, there may be some sneaky dangers to it, because it isn't just simply calories in, calories out. I just ate a few more calories when I had the cookie. Actually, I ate a completely different substance than what I have been eating, and my body is going to respond in kind.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: So one of the things and what we see, it really, it depends on where are you going with this ketogenic lifestyle? What is your basis for the lifestyle? And I think that really what we're going to talk about today is three different aspects or three different areas, three different reasons why people might be on a ketogenic diet or following a ketogenic lifestyle. And the first of those is health, health reasons. And that really is, for us, the reason behind the ketogenic lifestyle is health reasons. And the first thing that we want to talk about as far as a negative aspect of a cheat day has to do with health.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: High fat has become synonymous with arterial damage. We have all been told if you are at risk for getting heart disease or getting arterial damage and high cholesterol, plaque buildup, those types of things, if you are in that, maybe you have it in your family, maybe we're all susceptible to it. I think if we eat just the right things, I think we can all be susceptible to it. So one of the main dangers in my, to me about cheating is, has to do with arterial damage.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: The standard american diet, the high carbohydrate diet. Let me pause. We're not doctors. We got to say the things right. We're not doctors. We're not offering medical advice. We're offering our opinions based on our research and our life. Please do your own research and make your own decisions. As far as the health aspect goes, the keto diet is high in fat, and it's also high in cholesterol. What it's low in is inflammatory foods.
There are lots of studies, I'll leave one in the description, that link carbohydrate intake to inflammation inside your arteries. Now, the ketogenic diet, very low carb intake, very low inflammatory diet. But when you eat those carbs, when you have that cheat day, that those inflammatory foods, now you start inflaming your arteries. When you mix that with the high fat, high cholesterol of the ketogenic diet, now you're mixing together a recipe for what we see as disaster.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Right? So you've eaten the birthday cake and the cookies, or maybe you just went to chick fil a and got the thing, and you, maybe you do that every Friday because that's your little reward and you want to have some yummy food.
The thing that's happening is you're sending the mess. You're causing inflammation within your arteries. So they get inflamed, they get tiny little tears. And then the good guy who became the bad guy comes along and wants to start, you know, patching things up. But before that happens, very low density lipoproteins, which are in your high fat diet, can penetrate through that arterial wall. And when that happens, you begin to get arterial hardening. And that, that's a recipe for disaster. So you, whenever you're not inflamed and you're smooth, it can pass through. It doesn't pass through. It just is within your blood system, I think.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: And so, but as you eat inflammatory foods and your arteries become penetrable, now that little teeny, tiny fat can get in there. The lipoprotein can get in there, and then it begins to harden. That artery.
[00:08:43] Speaker B: Yep. It gets inside the cell walls of the artery, and then it can't get out. So as it inflames, it opens up. The VLDL passes through the arterial wall, and then it hardens when it gets stuck in there. So that's your hardening of the arteries. And then the other thing that happens is what Shelley mentioned, there are tiny little tears that happen when you inflame as well. And cholesterol. One of its jobs is to heal our, our arteries. So it takes those tiny little tears and basically acts like a band aid on top of them. And then the next time you tear it, it puts a band aid on it. And the next time, a band aid. And the next time, a band aid. And that's how you end up with buildup. So between the two, the VLDL penetrating and the other cholesterol patching, you end up with hardened and clogged arteries. And the. The. That mix of high fat, high cholesterol in your ketogenic diet with the inflammatory foods of your cheat day means that you, every time you have that cheat day, you're inflaming your arteries, and you're bringing that on at least the possibility of it happening. Right. And you're. So the health benefits, and that was one of the main reasons, like, for me, Crohn's and will this help? The other thing was my dad had heart attacks really young, and I don't want to do that. And the more I learned about the ketogenic diet, it became a maybe I don't have to have heart attacks. So for me, the question well, surely you have a cheat day, right? You cheat sometimes. Right?
[00:10:32] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: For me, it's.
No, I don't because of the reason why I'm doing it in the first place. A cheat day isn't just an extra calorie to me, a cheat day is the opportunity to inflame my arteries and cause heart disease.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
And then go eat a high fat diet. That's just an. That is a recipe for disaster. That is a. The number one reason or the. That is the first reason that you don't want to have any cheat days. If you need to have something that is yummy to you or is sweet or something like that, there are lots of alternatives so that you don't have to actually have the high carbohydrates that cause the inflammation.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: And that's why we do some of the cooking shows that we do with you guys, is we take some of the things that we miss from the standard american diet and show you what we do in order to sort of quench that craving. Like the McGriddle that we did the other day.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: That we love breakfast sandwiches, but I don't want to go to McDonald's and get that. Like, I just don't. So we've found ways in order to sort of mitigate that craving.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: The second reason that you wouldn't want to have cheat days is if your goal is weight loss and you're using ketosis and ketones to fuel fat burning and lose weight, because as a. If you're cheating, you're kind of sabotaging the whole entire system.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: One of the things that being in ketosis does is it really drops down your insulin levels because you're not bringing in that external sugar, the glucose, the carbohydrates, your body converts it all into sugar, into glucose, and that spikes your insulin levels. Well, when your insulin is up, that tells your fat cells to go into storage mode, right? So anytime you have insulin flowing in your body, your fat cells are in a receive mode. That's what insulin tells your fat cells to do, receive extra energy and store it. So whenever there's insulin, you're receiving it into your fat cells. In ketosis, the insulin is low, your fat cells are giving off energy because your liver is saying, I need that fuel in order to convert into ketones. So your fat cells are giving off energy, right? They're the no insulin, which means fat cells are sending energy out.
So now you're in ketosis. That's what's happening. That's how you can burn fat. When you're in ketosis is the insulin isn't there and your fat's giving off the energy, your liver's converting it into.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: Ketones and you're losing weight, and you.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: Are losing weight because you're, you're actually losing fat. You actually are. Those fat cells are giving off energy. Now, what happens when you eat that cheat meal or you have that cheat day?
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Well, first of all, in comes the glucose and quick, easy energy. Our cells are going to go glucose first every single time because it is the easiest pathway to energy and it'll choose it every single time. In order to be have energy from ketones and using your fat, you have to make your body do that. You have to say, you're not getting any glucose, you're going to have to go make it. And it will, and it does that very well.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: So when you have that high carbohydrate meal, then your body switches back to glucose as its fuel source, insulin goes up, reverses the fat cells. Now they're storing energy. So now as long as there's extra glucose in your body, you're storing that energy, so. And you will continue to burn glucose until that's gone. So if you have a cheat meal, you're going to have to burn all of that from the meal. If you have a cheat day, you're going to have to burn all of that from the entire day. You take in the glucose, the carbohydrates your body, turns it into glucose, you now have to burn all of that glucose. You'll store some of it and some of it will be floating around and you got to burn it until you get insulin.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: Has to tend to it.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Yeah, insulin has to tend to it, which it sends into the fat cells. Until you get rid of that glucose, you're burning glucose. So it's not like, well, I ate the meal, now I'm back into ketosis. That does not happen. You eat the meal and typically for the standard person, 24 to 48 hours.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: In order to be able to get your body to swing back into a ketosis mode.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:15:34] Speaker A: So almost two days it can take.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: There are things that you can do to help that.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Fasting helps, exercise helps, um, your own metabolism. Like, different people do different things. Uh, being fat adapted. So having been in ketosis for a long time will help your body kick back quicker. But if you're constantly converting from ketones to glucose, you're not becoming fat adapted. You're like, your metabolism is adapted, is well adapted. Adapted to use either fuel source, and that's fine, but not if your goal is burning fat, losing weight every time you eat that cheat meal, or have that cheat day, it's a double whammy. It's a double negative. Not only are you not using the fat like you are, when you're in ketosis, you're storing more fat. So instead of, well, you're going backwards. You're actually going backwards. It's not. I'm taking in. I'm not taking a step forward.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:34] Speaker B: I'm actually taking steps backwards.
[00:16:36] Speaker A: Right. And again, this is not the calories in calories out model. It doesn't, it doesn't work the same. You're actually telling your body to do something altogether different. It isn't a, well, I just didn't eat that many calories, or I just ate a few too many. It'll be fine. Your body literally switches metabolic function, and now you have to go back and tell it to do back the other way. And it's just going to take. It takes time for the physiology to change.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: Yeah. You can't just say, well, I would have eaten 200 calories of butter today. I'm going to eat 200 calories of oreos. Those are not the same 200 calories. Your body is going to react differently to that, and you're going to have to take time to recover from that cheat meal. And one of the, one of the most common things that people say, we always ask, how did you feel?
[00:17:28] Speaker A: How did it make you feel?
[00:17:29] Speaker B: How did it make you feel? How did you feel afterwards and to a person, every single time, every time, like, crap. I felt awful.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: I felt awful.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: And not just a, I felt guilty, right?
[00:17:41] Speaker A: No, like their bodies literally revolted against it. Their body, they felt awful within their whole system. And just, and it's just a testament to the fact that what they ate did not feed their body. You know, it really, it brought them down and it's, it's just really, really interesting.
There's some physiological reasons why with your glyph, with your glycogen stores being already low and then you up your sugar and your insulin and all the things that are going on in there says, I'm going to feel awful. But the fact is we think that it's going to make us feel good and like, woohoo, I'm going to eat the cake.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: And then for a moment it might, it might, it probably tastes good.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's a big food hangover.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: You know, it really isn't. It lasts for, for quite some time that people don't feel good. So what are some other impacts of cheating on a ketogenic diet?
[00:18:44] Speaker B: The, the last one we want to talk about really has to do with the psychology and the psychology behind eating. And some of the call them disorders, if you want to call them struggles, however you want to look at it.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: But fact of the matter is sugar and carbohydrates are highly addictive to our brains, to all of them. Some people succumb worse than others to the level of the addictiveness of the substances. There are genuine sugar addicts and carbohydrate addicts who have probably should have eaten their last carbohydrate ever.
I know somebody who said they put it like, I've drank all the beer I get to drink in life, I don't get to do that anymore. I've had my full share. And some people with their carbohydrates, it's the same way.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it can be similar to the struggles that an alcoholic would have. So the, the cheat day, to someone who's struggling with carb addiction or sugar addiction, is very similar to saying to the alcoholic, well, when do you go to the bar and have some drinks?
[00:20:01] Speaker A: When do you cheat?
[00:20:02] Speaker B: When do you cheat? When do you go drinking?
I don't because I was addicted to alcohol and now I'm not doing that anymore and I don't want to be back in that same place I was. So I don't cheat. And for the person who is addicted to sugar or carbohydrates and are using the ketogenic diet in order to deal with that addiction. The cheat day has very same effects as the alcoholic cheat day.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: Yeah. The ramifications for that person are going to be far greater than they are, maybe for the next person who doesn't suffer quite as much from the addiction. Now, it doesn't mean that they're not addicted because it is an addictive substance. Sugar and carbohydrates, especially highly processed ones. It's addictive to everyone. You can look at people walking around and you can tell that we're all addicted to it. You know, if you eat it and it's yummy, it tastes good, it makes you feel good. Everyone waits for that dopamine hit whenever we eat it.
But whenever someone is genuinely addicted to it, the last thing that that person even needs to consider is a cheat day.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And the. Well, here, just have some cake.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Oh, it's just a little, just it's.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: It'S, it's your birthday. Aren't you going to have ice cream?
[00:21:27] Speaker A: Yeah, no, no, I'm not it. Or I might, but I'm going to have a ketogenic alternative and I'm going to use sweeteners that don't spike my insulin at all, that have zero glycemic index load or anything. I'm going to use stevia. I'm going to have high fat egg, whatever. The thing is, I'm going to make something for myself that is good for my body.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: So that, that third one, I know that's a little touchy feely and isn't as sciencey as some of the others.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: But actually there's an article that frontier psychology, you'll put it in the show notes that they've done studies about the, the absolute addictive nature of sugar and what it does to our brains. So the, it is, while it might have some feels to it, it also, there's a lot of science behind the activities that are going on in our brains with those substances.
[00:22:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So that, that one, for as far as cheat days go, that can wreck progress.
It's a relapse situation, it's a falling off the wagon situation. And oftentimes from the testimonies that we've heard from people that we've talked to in that scenario, it often leads to weeks or months of, I'm just going to eat whatever I want and then that now you're really sabotaging whatever you are doing. Right. And oftentimes that's leading to actual illness. You know that now you're getting into your type two diabetes type issues when you're that addicted. So there are things that you can do. Like there are times when you're going to eat the thing and that's just it. You're going to do it. And if that's the decision that you've made, awesome. Do it. There are, there are. There's an order in which you can eat food. If you eat the fiber first, check out the glucose goddess. If you eat fiber first and then you eat the carbohydrates, your blood sugar levels don't spike as high. That's something that you can do. You can choose a low carbohydrate alternative to whatever it is you're wanting, or turn it, instead of a cheat day into a cheat meal or instead of a cheat meal into a cheat dessert.
Don't overdo it. Don't make it worse than it has to be.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: Right, right. Keep it, keep, keep it as to. As a minimum as you possibly can. If that's something that you have decided that you're going to do or if you're in a scenario where there's just no way out of this. I was in one not too long ago. There just wasn't a way out. I'm like, just gonna have to eat the dang thing, you know? Is it something that I would make for myself? No. Is it something that I really want to choose to do? No. But I'm in a situation where I can. It would be horribly rude of me to not do this and I'm just going to have to know that I did it and do things to mitigate the effects and that's it. But we just encourage you to, as you continue on your health journey, if you're just starting out, if you're just starting out, the answer is just no. Don't cheat. If you can help it, don't cheat. Go 40 days, no cheating at all. Just stick to it. Your guns. No matter what, no matter the peer pressure, no matter where you go. The answer is no, I'm not going to do that. I got 40 days. I'm going to do this. You know, try that first. If you've been doing it for years and years and you know, hey, I got to eat the thing, then just get right back at it. You know, just because you eat one meal doesn't change your whole entire life, and you don't have to change how you're eating forever. So, but as you continue down your journey, because life is long, just look at your. Just remember that your ketogenic diet is not a calories in, calories out situation. And when you cheat, there could be hidden dangers. So minimize your cheating as much as you can.
[00:26:04] Speaker B: And if you do decide to, there are ways that you can, can get back into ketosis faster, right? Fastest. First thing, don't eat. Yeah. Go on. An extended fast, longer than you normally would. Allow your body to burn up that glucose. While you're doing that exercise, your muscles will use their own glycogen stores, and your body will replace it, and it'll use the glucose that's floating around in your bloodstream in order to do it. So those are two things that can help you quickly or at least make it, make the conversion faster to get back into ketosis.
[00:26:43] Speaker A: We thank you guys for hanging out with us again today. And until next time. Bye.
